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Re: [lewiscarroll] LC's biog, done to death, or still waiting to be done? - (was 'allegations')

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  • Keith
    Kate, I think you and Mike are talking at cross purposes! The myth you refer to is classical mythology but Mike means the mythology that has been perpetrated
    Message 1 of 35 , Apr 8, 2006
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      Kate,

      I think you and Mike are talking at cross purposes!

      The myth you refer to is classical mythology but Mike means the mythology
      that has been perpetrated by every LC biographer since Collingwood.

      I think that the opportunity to do an honest biography has long gone if it
      ever existed at all! Even people who knew CLD bought into the LC myth (if
      you want to call it that) and you would be trying to replace Collingwood's
      myth, Cohen's myth, or even Leach's new myth with one of your own at the
      same time as being sniped at by the sychophantic followers of each side.
      It's the literary equivalent of taking part in the Charge of the Light
      Brigade.

      Keith






      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Kate Lyon" <lyon@...>
      To: <lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 11:16 PM
      Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] LC's biog, done to death, or still waiting to be
      done? - (was 'allegations')


      > Good point Mike - yes. Somehow, for me, life and myth are synonymous in
      > CLD's case. I'd like to take up the challenge. . .
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "mikeindex2001" <Mike@...>
      > To: <lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 3:33 AM
      > Subject: [lewiscarroll] LC's biog, done to death, or still waiting to be
      > done? - (was 'allegations')
      >
      >
      >>
      >> Kate, I think it would be fairer to say that the 'myth' (or myths)
      >> have been done to death, rather than the life. In fact I'd say in
      >> many ways, Dodgson's life, as it is documented, has yet to be
      >> really 'done' at all.
      >>
      >> I think we are all waiting for a new full biography that can pull
      >> together all the various aspects that have been unearthed - or at
      >> least rediscovered - in recent years.
      >>
      >> I wonder if anyone is going to take on that challenge? What
      >> conclusions, if any could they draw?
      >>
      >> Mike
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com, Kate Lyon <lyon@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Hi Matt - there are so many other areas of CLD's works to research -
      >> and I'm
      >>> talking about his works here, rather than his life, which has
      >> fairly much
      >>> been done to death - that it would be good to concentrate on those.
      >> To my
      >>> mind, any research that needs to focus on a very silly and prurient
      >> area
      >>> like this belongs in a tabloid, not in the area of scholarly
      >> research. My
      >>> suggestion would be to focus on what is bringing new knowledge into
      >> the
      >>> arena of Carroll Studies, rather than unfounded allegations which
      >> merely add
      >>> to the petty sensationalism that many of us are trying to
      >> overcome.These
      >>> questions may have a certain following, but I would imagine that
      >> you would
      >>> not want to cater to that. If you want to focus on areas of real
      >> interest,
      >>> there are heaps of people here that can help you.
      >>>
      >>> Kate Lyon
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ----- Original Message -----
      >>> From: "american_antigen" <tmhatmh@...>
      >>> To: <lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com>
      >>> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:33 AM
      >>> Subject: [lewiscarroll] allegations
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> > I'm trying to write my research paper on L.C. I was wondering if
      >>> > anyone knew if there was any truth in the pedophile and jack the
      >>> > ripper allegations? if not, does anyone know of any sources
      >> proving
      >>> > the contrary?
      >>> > thanks,
      >>> > -matt.
      >>> >
      >>> >
      >>> >
      >>> >
      >>> >
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      >>> >
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      >>
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      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
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    • Keith
      Kate, it would be interesting but lots of the Chaytor stuff is in Northallerton which is 100 miles away! I scanned it once years ago but nothing struck me as
      Message 35 of 35 , May 9, 2006
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        Kate,

        it would be interesting but lots of the Chaytor stuff is in Northallerton
        which is 100 miles away! I scanned it once years ago but nothing struck me
        as being that significant.

        Keith


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Kate Lyon" <lyon@...>
        To: <lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 11:57 AM
        Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Re: LC and other children


        Exactly Keith. It would be interesting to chase up the Chaytor
        correspondence - Longley certainly never felt Dodgson Senior was at all High
        Church.


        Kate
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Keith" <keith@...>
        To: <lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:04 PM
        Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Re: LC and other children


        > Jenny has opted out on this one but nevertheless it is still an area of
        > controversy.
        >
        > Having read of the life of several Victorian children it appears to me
        > that
        > Dodgson senior was just a man of his time. Having said that he appears to
        > me to be on the liberal side when it came to his children in that he
        > allowed
        > them to go their own way. The girls were criticised by Thomas Dodgson
        > from
        > Stubb Hall because they fratenised with the locals and they could only
        > have
        > done that if father allowed it! CLD mentions in his letters the people of
        > Croft who he obviously knew quite well so he obviously mixed in with the
        > locals himself.
        >
        > Perhaps the comments made later on when the Victorian times had long gone
        > would put Dodgson senior as a harsh man but no harsher than any father at
        > that time and more liberal than quite a few. Mother also was supposedly
        > never ever to scold the children.
        >
        > Keith
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "jenny2write" <woolf@...>
        > To: <lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 3:14 PM
        > Subject: [lewiscarroll] Re: LC and other children
        >
        >
        >> --- In lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com, Kate Lyon <lyon@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> By the way Jenny - I'm not meaning to suggest that you are
        >> contributing to the myth - far from it, in case the last email reads
        >> that way! I am referring to the comment you made in your first mail
        >> where you talk about CLD being free to explore views outside those of
        >> the family.
        >>>
        >>
        >> Thanks Kate.
        >> I never subscribed to the idea that Dodgson Sr was a tartar, although
        >> his children recalled him as having very decided views upon their
        >> upbringing, (or something like that- in Collingwood) His letters, as
        >> quoted in Anne Clark Amor's little book, show him to have been humane
        >> witty and intelligent with a good understanding of his individual
        >> children, and a loving desire to encourage them. In fact I think I
        >> would have liked him, and I certainly admire him. So I'm not trying
        >> to paint a pic of CLD cowering in a corner, having the door to the
        >> library slammed on his fingers, being socially incompetent, bullied,
        >> improperly educated or anything like that! I just think that he was
        >> totally engulfed by his family in childhood, so had very little
        >> chance to learn that it is even possible to have the right to ideas
        >> outside what the rest of the family believe - due to the fact that he
        >> was hardly ever OUTSIDE the family until he was 12. To me it looks
        >> as if this inability to transcend his family's moral and religious
        >> ideas overshadowed his development and was a constant problem to him
        >> later on. I'm sorry I've obvoiusly not been much good at putting
        >> this over. I think I've said enough about it, anyway, now! Jenny.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
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