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Re: [lewiscarroll] Lewis Carroll and the terrorist cybernetwork

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  • Raven
    ... From: Kate Lyon To: lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Lewis Carroll and the terrorist
    Message 1 of 31 , Aug 1, 2005
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Kate Lyon
      Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 6:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Lewis Carroll and the terrorist cybernetwork

      >Well - I will link my name with Karoline's as an anti-war protestor - though it isn't a name I would adopt myself - and if we are WORTH anything - well, what would >you rather have? A culture of hate from karoline, and I, and others like us?
       
      I don't think anyone should hate ANYONE! That's why I wouldn't want to live in a society of people like like you. I think people should mind their own business and let other people have their own veiws and religions and lives as long as they don't harm others. I think if someone doesn't like someone else they should just go their separate ways and never bother with each other again. If people did that we wouldn't be haveing this discussion. The world WOULD be peaceful.   
       
      >Or our attempts to try and change things for the better with peaceful means. But then - >sorry - that's pointless isn't it.
       
      But you aren't trying very hard or you'd be saying this to terrorists instead of me.
       
      Nothing is going to change unless we can get rid of hate and racism and let each other get on on with our respective lives in peaceful ways, like being able to worship as one pleases as long as it's in a peaceful way, and giving people at least some say in how their government is run and by who - like being able to vote, for instance. Not just having to be ruled by tyrants who like to torture ordinary citizens just cause it gives them a "buzz".
       
      >it can only work if people actually THINK! 
       
      ABSOLUTELY!
       
      >THEIR - whoever their is - culture teachers them its okay to murder, does it?
       
      Yes, it does. In the Coran it states that all who are not Muslim should be killed. I'd call that HATE and I'd call that RACIST. My religion does not promote either of those things.
       
      >And you are speaking from firsthand experience here, are you?
       
      No, I haven't been in the midst of the crowd attaced by a suicide bomber, but I have a friend who lives near and works in London and I was very worried when I heard about those bombings! He was alright but lots of people weren't. 
       
      >That you can tar everyone with the same brush? 
       
      No. Everyone is different. I respect that.
       
      >Isn't it the same sort of intolerance from 'US' and is >it from 'OTHER'.
       
      I'm not really sure what that question means.
       
      >I'm sorry - but I have had it up to here with the continual hatred and the constant "Well, they're Muslim therefore they're murderers thing." We ALL need to clean up our backyards
       
      Yeah, I'm sick of it too. Me and you could even have the potential of being friends if we could just put hatred aside. However I don't know if it's possible to change the veiws of terrorists and rascists by just sitting around doing nothing about it. I really don't think so. I hate the fact that war tactics are sometimes what it takes to get peace. I'm glad some people were brave enough and selfless enough to lay their lives at risk to keep my country free and we are not ruled by tyrants! Now People are doing the same thing for the people of Iraq. What are the Anti-war protestors doing about all this?  
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Raven
      Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:27 PM
      Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Lewis Carroll and the terrorist cybernetwork

       
       
       
       
      >And remember -  many think we are terroists too. In our name the coalition has murdered  at least 25,000 Iraqi civilians since the last 'war' began.  Maybe the only >difference between those victims and the ones in London  is there are far more of them and their names are not used by our media to create  an atmosphere of >hysterical fear and racism?
       
      >Karoline
       
      No, the difference is:
       
      The casualies of war are unintentional and the people responcible feel remorse and wish there was a better way than risking the lives of some to save the lives and the freedom of as many others as they can.
       
      Terrorists do what they do because it gives them a thrill and they are such evil and miserable people that they strive to cause as much pain to as many people as they possibly can without reguard of feeling for any of their victims. 
       
      That's a BIG difference! 
       
      >Terrorist web sites should be removed unless the security services can use them to root >out these murderers.  I'd go as far as asking folk who did not like our way >of life to remove >themselves from the country also, alternatively if they hold dual nationality - then cancel >their British one and deport them.  Nothing can justify >what these evil folk did or are >planning and they are the last ones to give any credence to democracy.  When you are >under attack certain things naturally go to >the back of the list and survival becomes >paramount.
       
       
       
      >Keith
       
      I agree with Keith totally! Even their own religion teaches them that it is right to murder people BECAUSE they don't share their beliefs! I wish they would all just live in their own country and leave us to ourselves. They live here cause they are free here to do whatever they want to. Unfortunately, one of the things they want to do is be Terrorists. 
       
      These anti-war protestors - like Karoline, for example -
       
      If they were WORTH anything, would be doing "Peace Protests" OVER THERE, not over HERE and in Britain! Why don't they burn Iraq flags instead of US and British ones? Because they would be shot up against a wall at dawn! 
       
      Why don't they vote? Because people who want Democracy and try to vote are bombed in mass while waiting their turn.
       
      I don't want to live in a country like THAT! And I don't want people who want to make MY country like that to live HERE! I'd say they should all be sent back and told not to visit again!
       
      I would have understood the logic of that when I was 7, and obviously the Bush's have good taste in books.
       
      Delshanna
       
      ...Soon beyond the melting clouds
      The light will shine on everyone
      that waits there in the silver rain
      to meet the golden sun...
       
      By Jeff Lynne from "Just for Love" on the ELO album ' ZOOM '
       
       
      Visit www.lookingforlewiscarroll.com
      “perhaps the best source of scholarly information on the web?”
      the Lewis Carroll Society
    • arnemail@dds.nl
      Apologies, this mail was meant for Kate only.
      Message 31 of 31 , Aug 4, 2005
        Apologies, this mail was meant for Kate only.


        Citeren arnemail@...:

        > This may be true, however, not every desperate person or people in thw world
        > is
        > a terrorist. Not even every really badly repressed person is.
        >
        > Sure, there are many dictators, many invading sacred places and lying to
        > their
        > people. Terrorism, however, is very small in comparison to the amount of
        > desperation and suffering in the world, wouldn't you agree?
        >
        > So, there must be other factors as well. One of them is the liability to a
        > certain kind of (religious) fundamentalism and/or extreme group-thinking that
        > we all share. Another one is the easy availability of weapons and the
        > products
        > needed for making bombs. And yet another one is the credible-looking
        > propaganda
        > by various sources (tv, internet). And, of course, it's also just possible
        > that
        > the people that actually carry out these suicide-killings (contrary to the
        > people that devise them) are just psychologically more instable and have a
        > tendency towards psychopathy, i.e. people with a defected
        > conscience-mechanism.
        >
        > Arne
        >
        >
        > Citeren Kate Lyon <lyon@...>:
        >
        > > I'm sure we COULD be friends, regardless :)
        > >
        > > "But you aren't trying very hard or you'd be saying this to terrorists
        > > instead of me. " I resent this. You know NOTHING about me, and nothing
        > about
        > > what I do. Equally, you know nothing about my background - if the US
        > > government stopped interfering, stopped filling sacred Islam places with
        > its
        > > soldiers - if the US hadn't PUT Sadam Hussein into power in the first place
        > > because it suited their ends, if the US economy didn't need wars to thrive,
        > > if Bush didn't lie to his people, thenmaybe - just MAYBE we wouldn't have
        > > terrorism now. And NO - I can NEVER condone terrorism in any shape or form.
        > > But when people are desperate, when no one listens, then they are driven to
        > > desperate measures.
        > >
        > > And this is NOT hate mail to the people of US, whom I genuinely like.
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Raven
        > > To: lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:58 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Lewis Carroll and the terrorist cybernetwork
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Kate Lyon
        > > To: lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 6:41 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Lewis Carroll and the terrorist
        > cybernetwork
        > >
        > >
        > > >Well - I will link my name with Karoline's as an anti-war protestor -
        > > though it isn't a name I would adopt myself - and if we are WORTH anything
        > -
        > > well, what would >you rather have? A culture of hate from karoline, and I,
        > > and others like us?
        > >
        > > I don't think anyone should hate ANYONE! That's why I wouldn't want to
        > > live in a society of people like like you. I think people should mind their
        > > own business and let other people have their own veiws and religions and
        > > lives as long as they don't harm others. I think if someone doesn't like
        > > someone else they should just go their separate ways and never bother with
        > > each other again. If people did that we wouldn't be haveing this
        > discussion.
        > > The world WOULD be peaceful.
        > >
        > > >Or our attempts to try and change things for the better with peaceful
        > > means. But then - >sorry - that's pointless isn't it.
        > >
        > > But you aren't trying very hard or you'd be saying this to terrorists
        > > instead of me.
        > >
        > > Nothing is going to change unless we can get rid of hate and racism and
        > > let each other get on on with our respective lives in peaceful ways, like
        > > being able to worship as one pleases as long as it's in a peaceful way, and
        > > giving people at least some say in how their government is run and by who -
        > > like being able to vote, for instance. Not just having to be ruled by
        > tyrants
        > > who like to torture ordinary citizens just cause it gives them a "buzz".
        > >
        > > >it can only work if people actually THINK!
        > >
        > > ABSOLUTELY!
        > >
        > > >THEIR - whoever their is - culture teachers them its okay to murder,
        > > does it?
        > >
        > > Yes, it does. In the Coran it states that all who are not Muslim should
        > > be killed. I'd call that HATE and I'd call that RACIST. My religion does
        > not
        > > promote either of those things.
        > >
        > > >And you are speaking from firsthand experience here, are you?
        > >
        > > No, I haven't been in the midst of the crowd attaced by a suicide
        > bomber,
        > > but I have a friend who lives near and works in London and I was very
        > worried
        > > when I heard about those bombings! He was alright but lots of people
        > weren't.
        > >
        > > >That you can tar everyone with the same brush?
        > >
        > > No. Everyone is different. I respect that.
        > >
        > > >Isn't it the same sort of intolerance from 'US' and is >it from
        > 'OTHER'.
        > >
        > > I'm not really sure what that question means.
        > >
        > > >I'm sorry - but I have had it up to here with the continual hatred and
        > > the constant "Well, they're Muslim therefore they're murderers thing." We
        > ALL
        > > need to clean up our backyards
        > >
        > > Yeah, I'm sick of it too. Me and you could even have the potential of
        > > being friends if we could just put hatred aside. However I don't know if
        > it's
        > > possible to change the veiws of terrorists and rascists by just sitting
        > > around doing nothing about it. I really don't think so. I hate the fact
        > that
        > > war tactics are sometimes what it takes to get peace. I'm glad some people
        > > were brave enough and selfless enough to lay their lives at risk to keep my
        > > country free and we are not ruled by tyrants! Now People are doing the same
        > > thing for the people of Iraq. What are the Anti-war protestors doing about
        > > all this?
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Raven
        > > To: lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:27 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Lewis Carroll and the terrorist
        > > cybernetwork
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >And remember - many think we are terroists too. In our name the
        > > coalition has murdered at least 25,000 Iraqi civilians since the last
        > 'war'
        > > began. Maybe the only >difference between those victims and the ones in
        > > London is there are far more of them and their names are not used by our
        > > media to create an atmosphere of >hysterical fear and racism?
        > >
        > > >Karoline
        > >
        > > No, the difference is:
        > >
        > > The casualies of war are unintentional and the people responcible
        > > feel remorse and wish there was a better way than risking the lives of some
        > > to save the lives and the freedom of as many others as they can.
        > >
        > > Terrorists do what they do because it gives them a thrill and they
        > > are such evil and miserable people that they strive to cause as much pain
        > to
        > > as many people as they possibly can without reguard of feeling for any of
        > > their victims.
        > >
        > > That's a BIG difference!
        > >
        > > >Terrorist web sites should be removed unless the security services
        > > can use them to root >out these murderers. I'd go as far as asking folk
        > who
        > > did not like our way >of life to remove >themselves from the country also,
        > > alternatively if they hold dual nationality - then cancel >their British
        > one
        > > and deport them. Nothing can justify >what these evil folk did or are
        > > >planning and they are the last ones to give any credence to democracy.
        > When
        > > you are >under attack certain things naturally go to >the back of the list
        > > and survival becomes >paramount.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >Keith
        > >
        > > I agree with Keith totally! Even their own religion teaches them
        > that
        > > it is right to murder people BECAUSE they don't share their beliefs! I wish
        > > they would all just live in their own country and leave us to ourselves.
        > They
        > > live here cause they are free here to do whatever they want to.
        > > Unfortunately, one of the things they want to do is be Terrorists.
        > >
        > > These anti-war protestors - like Karoline, for example -
        > >
        > > If they were WORTH anything, would be doing "Peace Protests" OVER
        > > THERE, not over HERE and in Britain! Why don't they burn Iraq flags instead
        > > of US and British ones? Because they would be shot up against a wall at
        > dawn!
        > >
        > > Why don't they vote? Because people who want Democracy and try to
        > > vote are bombed in mass while waiting their turn.
        > >
        > > I don't want to live in a country like THAT! And I don't want
        > people
        > > who want to make MY country like that to live HERE! I'd say they should all
        > > be sent back and told not to visit again!
        > >
        > > I would have understood the logic of that when I was 7, and
        > obviously
        > > the Bush's have good taste in books.
        > >
        > > Delshanna
        > >
        > > ...Soon beyond the melting clouds
        > > The light will shine on everyone
        > > that waits there in the silver rain
        > > to meet the golden sun...
        > >
        > > By Jeff Lynne from "Just for Love" on the ELO album ' ZOOM '
        > >
        > >
        > > Visit www.lookingforlewiscarroll.com
        > > "perhaps the best source of scholarly information on the web?"
        > > the Lewis Carroll Society
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > visit our homepage at:
        > >
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lewiscarroll/
        > >
        > > to unsubscribe send a blank email to:
        > > lewiscarroll-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
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