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Re: Further clarification

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  • Michael Ross
    Marjorie, ... First off, it s Michael, not Ross. klensch couldn t even get my name right when he quoted me. Again, how many times am I going to have to say
    Message 1 of 25 , May 1, 1999
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      Re: Further clarification
      Marjorie,

      Ross and others who are offended by a simple newsletter offer need to open their own minds exactly as he suggests others do.

      First off, it's Michael, not Ross. klensch couldn't even get my name right when he quoted me.

      Again, how many times am I going to have to say this. I was NOT offended by the offer of the newsletter. I was DISGUSTED by the waste of resources.

      To address your points, which although interesting, have NOTHING to do with my original outrage.

      I'm not sure you would be reacting quite the same if the spam had been advertizing a child pornography subscription. I'm not talking about the morals of propagating religion (i.e. influencing a mind) versus taking advantage of a child (i.e influencing a mind). I'm talking about not flogging your wares when people are trying to have a sensible, intelligent conversation, not unlike this one (albeit off-topic).

      I think you and he missed the point: the gentleman was making his newsletter available. That is NOT "evangelism." Evangelism, properly defined, is "telling the good news," as in...... well, should I explain it, you'd probably then be convinced that I had earned your anger<sigh>. I would by far prefer to remain friends!

      Evangelism, properly defined or not, is listed in the dictionary as "the zealous preaching and dissemination of the gospel". Note DISSEMINATION. If a religious newsletter is not that, then I don't know what is.

      A simple handout of a prospectus on a street corner, which is how religious fanatics like the followers of Sun Myung Moon first hook their soon-to-be brainwashed recruits, is in no way innocent, as you would have us believe. Compare to the drug dealer "making available" free samples of crack outside schools. Not pushing, just saying, hey it's here for you to enjoy at your leisure, and it makes you feel better about life. Waiting for the weak of character to jump on the bandwagon. Think about it.

      My point is simply that he did not sermonize, he offered. He stated no viewpoint. Are you threatened by *that?* <gasp>

      Give me a break. The "viewpoint" is in the nomenclature "Reverend". The "viewpoint" is inherent in the existence of any church. Any large organization inherently threatens the objective thinking of a single individual, as it is much easier to join than to think for yourself. The "flock of sheep" metaphor advertizes perfectly the stated objective of any organized religion.

      To ask "are you threatened?" is a classic and feeble attempt at turning the table when you feel that YOUR foundation principles are being questioned. We as individuals should ALL feel threatened, as this will bring about intelligent discussion and social change.

      You are trying to defend something that was not attacked, merely deemed inappropriate and costly. Why?

      ---
      Michael Ross
      Antigone
      Occidental CA USA
      mailto:mross@...
    • Bruce Graham
      We all have delete buttons built right into our computers. Bruce
      Message 2 of 25 , May 1, 1999
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        We all have delete buttons built right into our computers.

        Bruce
      • Bruce Graham
        The quickest way to got rid of this thread, if you wish to, is - don t respond, delete.
        Message 3 of 25 , May 1, 1999
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          The quickest way to got rid of this thread, if you wish to, is - don't
          respond, delete.
        • Stephen O. Saxe
          I concur with Austin Jones. Occasionally the topics veer off into unpleasant areas (and I ve been guilty of that in the past), but I find I can be my own
          Message 4 of 25 , May 1, 1999
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            I concur with Austin Jones. Occasionally the topics veer off into
            unpleasant areas (and I've been guilty of that in the past), but I find
            I can be my own moderator by hitting the "Delete" key.

            No Moderator! More Letterpress!
            --Steve Saxe


            Austin Jones wrote:
            >
            > As knowledgable professionals, we must all be our own moderators. To expect
            > someone to PROTECT us from ourselves is an abdication of our own
            > responsibilities.
            >
            > There has been more than enough name calling. I suggest we drop this thead
            > and move on.
            >
            > NO MODERATOR!!
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Michael Ross <mross@...>
            > To: LETPRESS@... <LETPRESS@...>
            > Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 8:11 PM
            > Subject: Call for moderation of the list LETPRESS
            >
            > >Dear LETPRESS Subscribers:
            > >
            > >I have no idea why Charles Klensch has felt compelled to post publicly an
            > >EDITED excerpt from a PRIVATE e-mail I sent to HAROLD BERLINER (who is
            > >never getting my business again, for sure... how about yours?), nor do I
            > >know how it came into his possession (although I have a pretty good idea).
            > >I hope they realize how this reflects on them and on their credibility in
            > >this community. I apologize on their behalf.
            > >
            > >I hereby propose that this list become moderated forthwith, to ensure that
            > >postings are related to the topic of Letterpress. (In a moderated list,
            > >posts are first submitted to a moderator, usually the owner of the list,
            > >who then forwards them to the list or not. Content is left untouched, the
            > >only decision being made is whether or not to forward. Hundreds of lists on
            > >the Internet are moderated and function quite well. The demand on the
            > >moderator's time is minimal.)
            > >
            > >Would anyone like to second this?
            > >
            > >Michael Ross
            > >
            > >
            > >>> Ross [mailto:mross@...] wrote...
            > >>> ...I am starting to think that there are a lot of people subscribing to
            > this
            > >>> list that have a higher opinion of themselves than absolutely
            > >>> necessary....People need to understand that, if they are going to use
            > the
            > >>> Internet, they are going to have to open up their minds a
            > >>> little bit, and learn to deal with all kinds of people they normally,
            > >>> consciously, try to shut out of their li[ves]...
            > >>
            > >>In case anyone missed this thoughtful, understanding confession. C
            > >
            > >---
            > >Michael Ross
            > >Antigone
            > >Occidental CA USA
            > >mailto:mross@...
            > >
          • Odaddyo@AOL.COM
            In a message dated 4/30/99 8:22:14 PM, mross@ANTIGONE.COM writes: No
            Message 5 of 25 , May 1, 1999
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              In a message dated 4/30/99 8:22:14 PM, mross@... writes:

              << Would anyone like to second this? >>

              No
            • klensch
              Ross wrote: I apologize on their behalf. Thank you for doing the decent thing. Fraternally, C.
              Message 6 of 25 , May 2, 1999
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                Ross wrote: "I apologize on their behalf."

                Thank you for doing the decent thing. Fraternally, C.
              • Michael Ross
                Somehow, someone has decided to forge e-mail from me, sending some pretty sick stuff on at least three or four occasions that have been brought to my
                Message 7 of 25 , May 2, 1999
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                  Somehow, someone has decided to forge e-mail from me, sending some pretty
                  sick stuff on at least three or four occasions that have been brought to my
                  attention. I am trying to investigate this and make it stop.

                  Regardless of anyone's opinions or feelings, please be aware that this is
                  happening. If there is any question in your mind, or if you care, whether
                  an email actually came from me or not, please write me personally to
                  authenticate.

                  I sincerely hope this whole thing will die down as soon as possible.

                  ---
                  Michael Ross
                  Antigone
                  Occidental CA USA
                  mailto:mross@...
                • Susan Anderson
                  I am quiet on this list because i don t know much about letpress enough to comment intelligently. ... BUT ... ( and i missed the original offensive post )
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 2, 1999
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                    I am quiet on this list because i don't know much about "letpress" enough to
                    comment intelligently. ... BUT ... ( and i missed the original "offensive
                    post" )
                    What I do know is that people have been going back and forth and around and
                    around about "it" for a week now ... can't we give it a rest and move on ?

                    just a thought :)s
                  • Austin Jones
                    NUF SAID!!! ... From: Susan Anderson To: LETPRESS@hermes.csd.unb.ca Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 4:50 PM Subject:
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 2, 1999
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                      NUF SAID!!!


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Susan Anderson <Teeeezm@...>
                      To: LETPRESS@... <LETPRESS@...>
                      Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 4:50 PM
                      Subject: Re: Call for moderation of the list LETPRESS


                      >I am quiet on this list because i don't know much about "letpress" enough
                      to
                      >comment intelligently. ... BUT ... ( and i missed the original "offensive
                      >post" )
                      >What I do know is that people have been going back and forth and around and
                      >around about "it" for a week now ... can't we give it a rest and move on ?
                      >
                      > just a thought :)s
                      >
                    • Chris Simonds
                      ... this ... Michael--The only reason for a moderated list is to give censorius piss-ants like you something to do. Wish you d go play somewhere else, where
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 2, 1999
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                        At 05:20 PM 4/30/99 -0700, you wrote:
                        >Dear LETPRESS Subscribers:
                        >
                        >I have no idea why Charles Klensch has felt compelled to post publicly an
                        >EDITED excerpt from a PRIVATE e-mail I sent to HAROLD BERLINER (who is
                        >never getting my business again, for sure... how about yours?), nor do I
                        >know how it came into his possession (although I have a pretty good idea).
                        >I hope they realize how this reflects on them and on their credibility in
                        >this community. I apologize on their behalf.
                        >
                        >I hereby propose that this list become moderated forthwith, to ensure that
                        >postings are related to the topic of Letterpress. (In a moderated list,
                        >posts are first submitted to a moderator, usually the owner of the list,
                        >who then forwards them to the list or not. Content is left untouched, the
                        >only decision being made is whether or not to forward. Hundreds of lists on
                        >the Internet are moderated and function quite well. The demand on the
                        >moderator's time is minimal.)
                        >
                        >Would anyone like to second this?
                        >
                        >Michael Ross
                        >
                        >
                        >>> Ross [mailto:mross@...] wrote...
                        >>> ...I am starting to think that there are a lot of people subscribing to
                        this
                        >>> list that have a higher opinion of themselves than absolutely
                        >>> necessary....People need to understand that, if they are going to use the
                        >>> Internet, they are going to have to open up their minds a
                        >>> little bit, and learn to deal with all kinds of people they normally,
                        >>> consciously, try to shut out of their li[ves]...
                        >>
                        >>In case anyone missed this thoughtful, understanding confession. C
                        >
                        >---
                        >Michael Ross
                        >Antigone
                        >Occidental CA USA
                        >mailto:mross@...
                        >
                        >
                        Michael--The only reason for a moderated list is to give censorius
                        piss-ants like you something to do.

                        Wish you'd go play somewhere else, where you can make mud-pies, and use the
                        F-word, and otherwise amuse yourself without bothering the grownups.

                        Warmest personal regards,
                        Chris




                        ==========================================================
                        The Out of Hand Press : P.O. Box 83, Pine Plains, NY 12567
                        518-789-6328 : : 888-239-3632
                        Got Type?
                      • norman mcknight
                        ... From: Chris Simonds To: LETPRESS@hermes.csd.unb.ca Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 2:38 PM Subject: Re:
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 2, 1999
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                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Chris Simonds <ohpress@...>
                          To: LETPRESS@... <LETPRESS@...>
                          Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 2:38 PM
                          Subject: Re: Call for moderation of the list LETPRESS


                          >At 05:20 PM 4/30/99 -0700, you wrote:
                          >>Dear LETPRESS Subscribers:
                          >>
                          >>I have no idea why Charles Klensch has felt compelled to post publicly an
                          >>EDITED excerpt from a PRIVATE e-mail I sent to HAROLD BERLINER (who is
                          >>never getting my business again, for sure... how about yours?), nor do I
                          >>know how it came into his possession (although I have a pretty good idea).
                          >>I hope they realize how this reflects on them and on their credibility in
                          >>this community. I apologize on their behalf.
                          >>
                          >>I hereby propose that this list become moderated forthwith, to ensure that
                          >>postings are related to the topic of Letterpress. (In a moderated list,
                          >>posts are first submitted to a moderator, usually the owner of the list,
                          >>who then forwards them to the list or not. Content is left untouched, the
                          >>only decision being made is whether or not to forward. Hundreds of lists
                          on
                          >>the Internet are moderated and function quite well. The demand on the
                          >>moderator's time is minimal.)
                          >>
                          >>Would anyone like to second this?
                          >>
                          >>Michael Ross
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>>> Ross [mailto:mross@...] wrote...
                          >>>> ...I am starting to think that there are a lot of people subscribing to
                          >this
                          >>>> list that have a higher opinion of themselves than absolutely
                          >>>> necessary....People need to understand that, if they are going to use
                          the
                          >>>> Internet, they are going to have to open up their minds a
                          >>>> little bit, and learn to deal with all kinds of people they normally,
                          >>>> consciously, try to shut out of their li[ves]...
                          >>>
                          >>>In case anyone missed this thoughtful, understanding confession. C
                          >>
                          >>---
                          >>Michael Ross
                          >>Antigone
                          >>Occidental CA USA
                          >>mailto:mross@...
                          >>
                          >>
                          >Michael--The only reason for a moderated list is to give censorius
                          >piss-ants like you something to do.
                          >
                          >Wish you'd go play somewhere else, where you can make mud-pies, and use the
                          >F-word, and otherwise amuse yourself without bothering the grownups.
                          >
                          >Warmest personal regards,
                          > Chris
                          >
                          >Chris: this was the most outrageous and beautiful posting on the
                          entire issue of Michael's War; before he really took off, he asked us
                          to send our "ad hominems" directly to him, which I did. He told me
                          he checks his e-mail every fifteen minutes; I think here is a little boy
                          with far to much time on his hands. I didn't want to burden the list
                          with this, but your humour is wonderful, although it may spawn still
                          more "positon papers." The forgery claim should be a clue. Warmest
                          personal regards, Norman McKnight. philoxenia@...

                          >
                          >
                          >==========================================================
                          >The Out of Hand Press : P.O. Box 83, Pine Plains, NY 12567
                          > 518-789-6328 : : 888-239-3632
                          > Got Type?
                          >
                        • Henry Weiland
                          Zack, I have not heard from you, have you found this font? I do think that what you are looking for is OLD ROMAN not old style roman. I have a friend here
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 4, 1999
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                            Zack,

                            I have not heard from you, have you found this font? I do think that
                            what you are looking for is "OLD ROMAN" not old style roman. I have a
                            friend here who has bought out several typographers, if I find the font
                            what do you think is a fair price? If it is available in a series, do
                            you want the whole series? If he has the face and doesn't want to sell,
                            would you want to have him set it for you and UPS the slugs to you? He
                            does quite a bit of typesetting for distant customers.

                            Best Regards,

                            Henry Weiland


                            Zack Hamric wrote:
                            >
                            > I would suggest that such a moderator already exists- it's called the delete
                            > key and it managed to successfully let me avoid the entire previous thread at
                            > a push of the button.
                            >
                            > This forum sometimes reminds me of the South Rim trail to the bottom of the
                            > Grand Canyon. You've got a case of hikers sharing the trail with a few mule
                            > riding tourists. Hikers who enjoy the beautiful scenery describe the
                            > wonderful vistas and spend a little time cleaning off their boots at the end
                            > of the trip. Hikers who only look at the trail finish with clean boots and
                            > memories of ten miles of dodging mule manure.
                            >
                            > Back to letterpress- I'm trying to reproduce a book by Elbert Hubbard titled
                            > "Pig Pen Pete". It used a font 8*220 (Roman Old Style) that was in the 1919
                            > Linotype Specimen book. I can set this on either Intertype or Monotye Comp
                            > Caster. Does anyone have any leads on whether these mats exist? I've checked
                            > with most of the mat dealers already.
                            >
                            > My thanks in advance,
                            >
                            > Zack Hamric
                            > Two Swallows Press
                          • Martin Wolf
                            Now, now, boys. Martin Wolf
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 4, 1999
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                              Now, now, boys.
                              Martin Wolf
                            • Richard M. Alderson III
                              ... Good to hear that Chuck is still involved in typography. He was a long contri- butor to the newsgroup comp.fonts, where I first met him (a shame, as I
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 10, 1999
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                                Rick McGowan wrote:

                                >The other day someone mentioned Bigelow & Holmes... I was at a conference last
                                >year where they both gave a talk about stuff they've been doing lately. And
                                >Chuck Bigelow is a lively and animated speaker on typogever get a chance to
                                >hear him lecture, by all means check it out, on any topic -- he's one of the
                                >best lecturers I've ever seen.

                                Good to hear that Chuck is still involved in typography. He was a long contri-
                                butor to the newsgroup comp.fonts, where I first met him (a shame, as I worked
                                at Stanford for a number of years and never got to know him there), but he left
                                the group when he moved to Hawaii, and could only be found in rec.gardening (as
                                roses are another passion of his).

                                Rich Alderson
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