Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Polymer plate sun exposure

Expand Messages
  • edinman
    ... Yes, you can get good quality from sunlight and hand brushing plates, and no, you re not necessarily throwing away your money with a processor. It all
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 28, 1998
    • 0 Attachment
      Elias wrote:

      >I'm all for a cheaper way... but not at the expense of quality.

      Yes, you can get good quality from sunlight and hand brushing plates, and no,
      you're not necessarily throwing away your money with a processor.

      It all comes down to whether you are an artist/student/hobby printer vs. a
      relatively high volume/professional printing company.

      To put it another way, some of us as individuals have more money than time
      while others have more time than money when it comes to immediate results.
      And some of us are into experimentation for art's sake while others would
      question the validity of this indulgence as it relates to the corporate
      bottom line.

      I understand both perspectives. Whatever works for you go with it!

      --Ed
    • Dan Remer
      I have some off cuts of unused polymer material. Its .060 thick, steel backed. They range from about 1 inch wide to three by 8. Approx a pounds worth. If
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 28, 1998
      • 0 Attachment
        I have some off cuts of unused polymer material. Its .060 thick, steel
        backed. They range from about 1 inch wide to three by 8. Approx a pounds
        worth. If anyone wants to experiment with them, send me $10.00 to cover
        postage. Let me know by tomorrow evening because I'm leaving town for a
        couple weeks.

        In any event, I won't be able to be of much help on the sun exposure side
        of things.

        dan
      • Martin & Anne Gutzmer
        Where do I send the $10 to God Bless, Rev Martin R. Gutzmer 940 South 3rd Ave Kankakee IL 60901-4905 Phone 815-932-8151 If my Credit is good, just send it
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 28, 1998
        • 0 Attachment
          Where do I send the $10 to
          God Bless,
          Rev Martin R. Gutzmer
          940 South 3rd Ave
          Kankakee IL 60901-4905
          Phone 815-932-8151

          If my "Credit" is good, just send it along, and I'll send you a check right
          away!
          (as soon as you e-mail me an address!)
          God Bless,
          Martin

          Dan Remer wrote:

          > I have some off cuts of unused polymer material. Its .060 thick, steel
          > backed. They range from about 1 inch wide to three by 8. Approx a pounds
          > worth. If anyone wants to experiment with them, send me $10.00 to cover
          > postage. Let me know by tomorrow evening because I'm leaving town for a
          > couple weeks.
          >
          > In any event, I won't be able to be of much help on the sun exposure side
          > of things.
          >
          > dan
        • cavedog
          ... ***** edinman: Thanks for your reply. You outlined just about the same approach I ve taken in the past. And the time sounds familiar. Of course,
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
          • 0 Attachment
            You wrote:

            >I have found 7-8 minutes under direct sunlight to be sufficient with the
            >plates sold by NA.
            >
            >Expose 3.5 to 4 minutes with the sun from one direction, gently rotate the
            >table holding the plate, and expose the remaining 3.5 to 4 minutes from the
            >opposite direction.
            >
            >I have found this process to be quite reliable for making line plates,
            >although I haven't yet attempted a halftone plate. For negative material I
            >use regular Dupont orthochromatic litho film which is nearly identical to
            >Kodalith ortho and processed in the same A&B developer. It is a clear base
            >film which can be handled safely under a red safelight.
            >
            >To make the negative copy your artwork to size onto transparent tracing
            >paper in a good office copier or laser printer, then contact print onto the
            >film with the emulsion face down if image on tracing paper is
            >right-reading; emulsion side up if image on tracing paper is mirror image.
            >
            >Always burn plates with emulsion side down (facing plate). Works like a
            >charm.

            *****

            edinman:

            Thanks for your reply. You outlined just about the same approach I've
            taken in the past. And the time sounds familiar. Of course, specific
            weather conditions to make some difference, but I'll use 4 minutes as a
            starting point.

            I've not made my own negs. Being a graphic designer, I'm basically
            surgically joined to a computer, so the artwork begins as digital. A
            service bureau outputs the files on an imagesetter, yielding excellent
            quality, highly-opaque negatives that work beautifully.

            Thanks again for your help!
            Chris

            Cave Dog Studio
            Graphic Design . Letterpress . Bookbinding
            781-631-6950 http://www.soliddesign.com
          • Dan Remer
            I had two pounds of plate end cuts that are being sent to the first two people who asked. (I ve emailed you & you re supposed to send me $10 each). I ll
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
            • 0 Attachment
              I had two pounds of plate end cuts that are being sent to the first two
              people who asked. (I've emailed you & you're supposed to send me $10 each).

              I'll continue to save mine and in another month or two I'll have more.

              dan
            • Dan Remer
              I use a vacuum unit for exposing. I ve had some problems with type being a bit blobby here and there once in awhile. I finally tracked down the problem. The
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
              • 0 Attachment
                I use a vacuum unit for exposing. I've had some problems with type being a
                bit blobby here and there once in awhile. I finally tracked down the
                problem. The plate is just slightly sticky and very small, almost invisible
                except at an angle, bubbles were being trapped. Dusting the plate with baby
                powder and wiping it all off with a cosmetic sponge seems to fix this
                problem without impacting the quality.

                dan
              • John Risseeuw
                It is worth noting that there are several polymer plate manufacturers -- Toyobo-Printight, (a cool water wash-out plate) Miraclon (a warm water wash-out) and
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
                • 0 Attachment
                  It is worth noting that there are several polymer plate manufacturers --
                  Toyobo-Printight, (a cool water wash-out plate) Miraclon (a warm water
                  wash-out) and BASF. The Toyobo-Printight plate (sold in the U.S. by
                  Anderson & Vreeland) specifically states on their packaging "Powderless
                  Plate: This plate is not required (sic) to spread fine powder for the
                  better contact between the negative film and the undeveloped plate." Not
                  everyone using polymer plates knows that there are different plates or even
                  which plate they're using since they may buy from a middleman. The advice
                  to powder may work for some and not others.

                  Dan Mayer & John Risseeuw

                  >I use a vacuum unit for exposing. I've had some problems with type being a
                  >bit blobby here and there once in awhile. I finally tracked down the
                  >problem. The plate is just slightly sticky and very small, almost invisible
                  >except at an angle, bubbles were being trapped. Dusting the plate with baby
                  >powder and wiping it all off with a cosmetic sponge seems to fix this
                  >problem without impacting the quality.
                  >
                  >dan


                  School of Art
                  Arizona State University
                • Dan Remer
                  You re right. I never had the problem with the Anderson plates. The ones I m using are Miraclon sold by Gene Becker. I had some other problems with the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You're right. I never had the problem with the Anderson plates. The ones I'm
                    using are Miraclon sold by Gene Becker. I had some other problems with the
                    Anderson, so I switched. The powder does't seem to be much of a problem to
                    apply, though it was an annoying process to troubleshoot.

                    dan

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Letterpress Discussion List [mailto:LETPRESS@...]On
                    > Behalf Of John Risseeuw
                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 2:11 PM
                    > To: LETPRESS@...
                    > Subject: Re: Polymer plate technical note
                    >
                    >
                    > It is worth noting that there are several polymer plate manufacturers --
                    > Toyobo-Printight, (a cool water wash-out plate) Miraclon (a warm water
                    > wash-out) and BASF. The Toyobo-Printight plate (sold in the U.S. by
                    > Anderson & Vreeland) specifically states on their packaging "Powderless
                    > Plate: This plate is not required (sic) to spread fine powder for the
                    > better contact between the negative film and the undeveloped plate." Not
                    > everyone using polymer plates knows that there are different
                    > plates or even
                    > which plate they're using since they may buy from a middleman. The advice
                    > to powder may work for some and not others.
                    >
                    > Dan Mayer & John Risseeuw
                    >
                    > >I use a vacuum unit for exposing. I've had some problems with
                    > type being a
                    > >bit blobby here and there once in awhile. I finally tracked down the
                    > >problem. The plate is just slightly sticky and very small,
                    > almost invisible
                    > >except at an angle, bubbles were being trapped. Dusting the
                    > plate with baby
                    > >powder and wiping it all off with a cosmetic sponge seems to fix this
                    > >problem without impacting the quality.
                    > >
                    > >dan
                    >
                    >
                    > School of Art
                    > Arizona State University
                    >
                  • edinman
                    ... Hi Jim, I don t actually think temperature is going to have a great effect, as I ve exposed them in both hot and cold weather. What is important is that
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >I'd really like to try this method of making plates. The question I have
                      >had using the sun method, is what difference in timing does the
                      >temperature make? That is, I assume that the plate is exposed in the sun
                      >outdoors. Here in the Greater Northeast we go through quite a range in
                      >temperatures.

                      Hi Jim,

                      I don't actually think temperature is going to have a great effect, as I've
                      exposed them in both hot and cold weather.

                      What is important is that you have to have direct sunlight. If the day is
                      cloudy or even partly cloudy I have found results to be unpredictable.
                      Certainly your exposure times would be greatly affected as it's sort of
                      like trying to get a suntan in the shade.

                      Fortunately for me I live in the South where the sun shines a good bit
                      year-round and on cloudy days I have a friend with an exposure unit about
                      five blocks from me who will expose and process them for me for ten bucks.

                      Good luck with your experimentation.

                      Ed
                    • Jim Morawski
                      ... I d really like to try this method of making plates. The question I have had using the sun method, is what difference in timing does the temperature make?
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
                      • 0 Attachment
                        cavedog wrote:
                        >
                        > Fellow 'listers:
                        >
                        > It's been several months now since I've exposed a polymer plate with the
                        > "Cheap-ass Cave Dog Method" (glass-negative-plate-glass sandwich propped
                        > in the sun) and the time has come to make a few more.
                        >
                        > Being a bit lacking in the anal-retentive gene (this being good and bad I
                        > suppose), I have never recorded any of the times or results of previous
                        > efforts. Rather than repeat the same experiments over and over, wasting
                        > untold amounts of material, I thought perhaps someone else out there has
                        > done this _and_ had the presence of mind to at least remember the numbers.
                        >
                        > So, does anyone else burn their plates in the sun? Have you been able to
                        > achieve consistent, predictable results? Care to share the info? I use
                        > the plate material sold by NA - not sure of the particular brand, but
                        > they metal backed and (unexposed) are a greenish yellow color, curing to
                        > a gold-tinted transparent tone after exposure.
                        >
                        > Thanks much in advance,
                        > Chris Clark
                        >
                        > Cave Dog Studio
                        > Graphic Design . Letterpress . Bookbinding
                        > 781-631-6950 http://www.soliddesign.com

                        I'd really like to try this method of making plates. The question I have
                        had using the sun method, is what difference in timing does the
                        temperature make? That is, I assume that the plate is exposed in the sun
                        outdoors. Here in the Greater Northeast we go through quite a range in
                        temperatures.

                        Jim Morawski
                      • Elias Roustom
                        The blobby letters are from poor vacuum... the powder will help a little... but be sure your vinyl is stretched well over the plate and film, rub out any and
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 29, 1998
                        • 0 Attachment
                          The "blobby" letters are from poor vacuum... the powder will help a
                          little... but be sure your vinyl is stretched well over the plate and film,
                          rub out any and all air from center to edge of plate. Also make sure your
                          film is smaller than your plate (min 2pt all around). If you are using
                          powder you might find it more convenient to put the powder on the film
                          (emulsion side), and wipe off with very soft (lint free) and very dry
                          cloth... I like to leave the plate material covered with its mylar sheet and
                          out of light for as long as possible, no need to increase the chance of
                          ruining it by handling so much before burning.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Dan Remer <dan@...>
                          To: LETPRESS@... <LETPRESS@...>
                          Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 1:45 PM
                          Subject: Re: Polymer plate technical note


                          >I use a vacuum unit for exposing. I've had some problems with type being a
                          >bit blobby here and there once in awhile. I finally tracked down the
                          >problem. The plate is just slightly sticky and very small, almost invisible
                          >except at an angle, bubbles were being trapped. Dusting the plate with baby
                          >powder and wiping it all off with a cosmetic sponge seems to fix this
                          >problem without impacting the quality.
                          >
                          >dan
                        • William Alford
                          ... I ve NO experience with the polymer plates that you re discussing, but it seems from this thread that diazo screen-printing plates have similar exposure
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 2 10:02 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            At 10:48 AM 4/29/98 -0000, you wrote:
                            >
                            >>To make the negative copy your artwork to size onto transparent tracing
                            >>paper in a good office copier or laser printer, then contact print onto the
                            >>film with the emulsion face down if image on tracing paper is
                            >>right-reading; emulsion side up if image on tracing paper is mirror image.
                            >>

                            I've NO experience with the polymer plates that you're discussing, but it
                            seems from this thread that diazo screen-printing "plates" have similar
                            exposure characterists, and we have very good results printing onto vellum
                            from a good laser printer and then "burning" the screens directly through
                            the paper without ever going to film, even with 45 line half-tones (however,
                            in screen printing, we use film positives rather than negatives). Vellum is
                            very transparent to UV and apparently doesn't diffuse the light very much.
                            Of coursse, it isn't base stable, and is humidity sensitive, so much be
                            stored carefully and used quickly, but will still produce pretty tight
                            multi-color registration. This might be useful in certain limited
                            applications. Yours, WA
                            William Alford
                            walford@...
                          • William Alford
                            ... I ve NO experience with the polymer plates that you re discussing, but it seems from this thread that diazo screen-printing plates have similar exposure
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 6 9:27 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              At 10:48 AM 4/29/98 -0000, you wrote:
                              >
                              >>To make the negative copy your artwork to size onto transparent tracing
                              >>paper in a good office copier or laser printer, then contact print onto the
                              >>film with the emulsion face down if image on tracing paper is
                              >>right-reading; emulsion side up if image on tracing paper is mirror image.
                              >>

                              I've NO experience with the polymer plates that you're discussing, but it
                              seems from this thread that diazo screen-printing "plates" have similar
                              exposure characterists, and we have very good results printing onto vellum
                              from a good laser printer and then "burning" the screens directly through
                              the paper without ever going to film, even with 45 line half-tones (however,
                              in screen printing, we use film positives rather than negatives). Vellum is
                              very transparent to UV and apparently doesn't diffuse the light very much.
                              Of coursse, it isn't base stable, and is humidity sensitive, so must be
                              stored carefully and used quickly, but will still produce pretty tight
                              multi-color registration. This might be useful in certain limited
                              applications. Yours, WA
                              William Alford
                              walford@...

                              William Alford
                              walford@...
                            • edinman
                              ... I assume the vellum or positive transparency could as easily be used to expose a film negative which could then be used to burn a polymer plate. Or perhaps
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 7 8:24 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                William wrote:

                                >we have very good results printing onto vellum
                                >from a good laser printer and then "burning" the screens directly through
                                >the paper without ever going to film, even with 45 line half-tones (however,
                                >in screen printing, we use film positives rather than negatives). Vellum is
                                >very transparent to UV and apparently doesn't diffuse the light very much.

                                I assume the vellum or positive transparency could as easily be used to
                                expose a film negative which could then be used to burn a polymer plate.
                                Or perhaps even make a direct negative if the laser printer or copier was
                                set up do do such a thing.

                                I have made positive transparencies on a copier but found the toner didn't
                                stick as well to them as it does to regular tracing paper. Of course that
                                may be unique to my particular machine and situation. At any rate, tracing
                                paper is cheaper and I have found it works for me.

                                Have found the vellum handy for making a copy and then flopping it on the
                                copier to make a mirror image onto tracing paper that can them be exposed
                                emulsion side up onto litho film for making a polymer plate.

                                Whether this extra step adds to or takes away from the sharpness of the
                                final image (compared to exposing negative emulsion side down) is
                                debatable.

                                Either way works pretty good, but might not be appropriate for very fine
                                work or agate type. I mostly just use polymer for line art. Most type
                                from 5.5 to 72 point I still cast or set by hand in metal.

                                Ed
                              • Elias Roustom
                                You can buy a specially coated mylar made for the laser jet with screen printing in mind. Ask your local dealer (commercial screen printing supplies), most
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 7 6:24 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  You can buy a specially coated mylar made for the laser jet with screen
                                  printing in mind. Ask your local dealer (commercial screen printing
                                  supplies), most will give you a sheet or two to try (I've never used the
                                  stuff, but I've seen it work). It should save a step...

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: edinman <edinman@...>
                                  To: LETPRESS@... <LETPRESS@...>
                                  Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 11:34 AM
                                  Subject: Re: Polymer plate sun exposure


                                  >William wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>we have very good results printing onto vellum
                                  >>from a good laser printer and then "burning" the screens directly through
                                  >>the paper without ever going to film, even with 45 line half-tones
                                  (however,
                                  >>in screen printing, we use film positives rather than negatives). Vellum
                                  is
                                  >>very transparent to UV and apparently doesn't diffuse the light very much.
                                  >
                                  >I assume the vellum or positive transparency could as easily be used to
                                  >expose a film negative which could then be used to burn a polymer plate.
                                  >Or perhaps even make a direct negative if the laser printer or copier was
                                  >set up do do such a thing.
                                  >
                                  >I have made positive transparencies on a copier but found the toner didn't
                                  >stick as well to them as it does to regular tracing paper. Of course that
                                  >may be unique to my particular machine and situation. At any rate, tracing
                                  >paper is cheaper and I have found it works for me.
                                  >
                                  >Have found the vellum handy for making a copy and then flopping it on the
                                  >copier to make a mirror image onto tracing paper that can them be exposed
                                  >emulsion side up onto litho film for making a polymer plate.
                                  >
                                  >Whether this extra step adds to or takes away from the sharpness of the
                                  >final image (compared to exposing negative emulsion side down) is
                                  >debatable.
                                  >
                                  >Either way works pretty good, but might not be appropriate for very fine
                                  >work or agate type. I mostly just use polymer for line art. Most type
                                  >from 5.5 to 72 point I still cast or set by hand in metal.
                                  >
                                  >Ed
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.