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Andrius and Paolo chat about Learning From Each Other

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  • Andrius Kulikauskas
    Paolo Pumilia, Thank you for introducing yourself to our group! I look forward to your letters about your Open Content conferences. I invite more of us might
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 24, 2006
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      Paolo Pumilia, Thank you for introducing yourself to our group! I look
      forward to your letters about your Open Content conferences. I invite
      more of us might introduce ourselves. I share my chat with Paolo.
      Andrius Kulikauskas, http://www.ms.lt
      ---------------------------------------------------------------

      Andrius: Hi Paolo, I encourage you to write to our working group
      Learning From Each Other which Pamela McLean is leading. I signed up you
      and others at Como for this group so that we can write about Open
      Content there.
      learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
      … I also sent my notes there from our round table
      Paolo: hi
      Andrius: hi
      Paolo: ok, il will read
      … letters from that group
      Andrius: great
      Paolo: is there a page explaining the aims of that group?
      Andrius: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/
      Paolo: ok
      Andrius: http://www.findbetterways.info/wiki.cgi?Learning
      Paolo: i see there are a lot of messages
      Andrius: yes, you got them, yes?
      Paolo: yes, they have been stored automatically
      Andrius: oh, that's good
      Paolo: but i had no time to read
      Andrius: Pamela McLean is leading our work in this area and she agreed
      to host your efforts as you build momentum
      … especially because Open Content and ICT for Learning are quite related.
      Paolo: should i follow any ideas that has proposed before?
      Andrius: Most important is just to introduce yourself
      … you can read Pamela's latest letter
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/message/36
      … and my notes from Como
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/message/23
      … and also this from Pamela:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/message/26
      Paolo: ok, i'll read that - I think it would be interesting to comment
      on the most important features set up an open content project
      Andrius: yes
      … but even a simple hello would be a great encouragement!
      … and we can discuss details as we go along
      Paolo: ok, i will send it now
      Andrius: Thank you!
      Paolo: i have sent a mesages (you've beeen copied) but it does not shouw up
      Andrius: It is your first letter to the group so it gets moderated. I
      will change your settings now.
      Paolo: :(
      … ok
      … :)
      … |-)
      Andrius: Paolo, I've made the changes. Thank you! It's a great beginning!
      … Pamela will be happy!
      Paolo: who is pamela?
      Andrius: She is the leader of the group. She lives in London, UK. She
      has a special interest in Africa.
      Paolo: wht about open content and education?
      Andrius: Her interest is in "learning from each other" and how to use
      ICT for learning.
      … So I asked her to host our work on open content.
      … And she agreed.
      … So we can build momentum together
      … and then specialize later.
      Paolo: ok- we probably will set a special forum on eexplor.org, in the
      next few months
      Andrius: Paolo, I encourage you to work together as much as possible to
      build momentum - I have invested a lot to work with you!
      … Anyways, in the meanwhile, please write to this group about your plans!
      Paolo: ok
      … but since this group is lead by Pamela, i think we should not drive
      the topicc away
      Andrius: it's best to have overlapping topics
      … we have very few letters right now so it's good to get them
      … you are helping her by writing
      … and by trying to work together
      Paolo: Which kind off help does she need? Ideas?
      Andrius: People
      … who share their projects
      … and are looking for ways to work together
      Paolo: But i do know know enough of her project
      Andrius: So, for example, you are interested in Open Content and she is
      interested in Learning and there is a connection.
      … Yes, so please let's learn about each other's projects.
      … Write about your project
      Paolo: Wel, i have not a project for education really, rather a project
      to study open content initiatives
      Andrius: Yes, but in reality, I think it is good to connect our
      projects, yes?
      … Why study open content initiatives unless we want to help them?
      … And if we want to help them, we should connect with them, yes?
      Paolo: ok,as i promised, i will send more about my ideas - i hope they
      are in topic
      Andrius: sure, that's great!
      … and that will help us think how to connect with you
      … and Pamela and I will write about our projects, too
      Paolo: ok
      Andrius: and I think Agnese will join us and I think others will respond
      … I will share our chat.
      Paolo: ok, Agnese is a librarian, right?
      Andrius: yes
      … she is active in our lab
      Paolo: deal with education??
      Andrius: she lives in Santa Marinella and she traveled now to Tanzania
      and Kenya and met our lab members there. She is interested in "local
      publishing" and helping them publishing textbooks for primary and
      secondary education.
      … She came to your conference last year.
      Paolo: Interesting
      … ys you told me but i do not remember her
      Andrius: Yes, so there are very practical opportunities for open content
      projects.
      … But it helps to look at the bigger picture, for example, education in
      general.
      … And these projects can I think help us find speakers for your conferences.
      Paolo: but why spreading all the people across so many mailing lists?
      Andrius: we try not to have too many mailing lists.
      … We organize them when we have a strong leader in a new direction.
      Paolo: what about the first one? ( i do not remember the name)
      Andrius: We have one on BackToTheRoot for leadership development.
      … But Pamela joined us and I wanted to organize around her so we started
      one on her key concept Learning From Each Other.
      … The groups take time to build momentum, it takes effort and patience.
      … So that is why we agreed to host your efforts here because we could
      share momentum.
      … Then we will see what happens.
      Paolo: ok
      … I am leaving now
      Andrius: good night!
      Paolo: good night
    • Pamela McLean
      Hello Paulo - and thanks also to Andrius and Benoit for recent related posts. Thank you Paulo for your email introducing yourself. I do share your interest in
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 25, 2006
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        Hello Paulo - and thanks also to Andrius and Benoit for recent related
        posts.

        Thank you Paulo for your email introducing yourself. I do share your
        interest in Open Content. In this post I will describe some of my
        interests in the hope it will help you to recognise how our interests
        overlap and how we can take our discussions forward in a fruitful way.
        I hope it will serve as a kind of personal introduction too. I confess
        it is a long email because I feel your post has acted as a catalyst and
        focus for laying out my ideas and hopes for this group. After we take a
        wide view can see more easily where to focus.

        I am interested in Open Content because it is an important aspect of how
        new educational systems are developing now that we have the Internet.
        My interest in the development of such systems is the reason why Andrius
        set up this group. I have been interested in the relationship between
        ICTs and the development of educational systems since I studied with the
        Open University in the 1970s/80s.

        Currently I am linked with various community development projects in
        rural Nigeria, an area which - surprisingly perhaps - provides rich
        opportunities for exploring the development of ICT enabled education.
        Perhaps you have heard the story of the two shoe salesmen who went to
        Africa - one came back saying there was no market because people went
        barefoot, while the other came back greatly excited at the potential.
        That is how I see the situation regarding ICT enabled education in rural
        Nigeria. It is new ground.

        There are benefits in working in new ground. It seems to me that in any
        area where there is already a well established educational system, there
        will inevitably be structures and systems designed for the industrial
        society - not for the information society of the 21st century. If the
        structures and systems - the buildings, the roles, the thinking, and the
        individual and group ways of behaving, have all taken their shape from
        19th and 20th century norms, then the potential of ICT will probably be
        something of an "add on" - rather than being the catalyst - the main
        force driving developments and structures. By contrast in areas where
        19th and 20th century educational systems are less well established (as
        in rural Nigeria) new approaches to education, enabled through ICT,
        could develop with greater freedom, in a more organic way (once the ICT
        infrastructure breaks through.)

        There are various elements needed for ICT enabled learning. It can be
        helpful to consider the elements under two headings - delivery systems
        and content.

        The delivery systems consist of :
        - Infrastructure to deliver information (Internet connectivity and
        electrical power).
        - Hardware and software to accept and process and deliver information.
        - Buildings in which to place the hardware and software.
        - People to install and maintain the equipment.
        - People to operate the equipment.
        - Independent learners to benefit from the educational potential of the
        ICT system.
        - E-learning champions to share what they know about the educational
        potential of ICTs with others.
        - Social networks to enable the e-learning champions to link up with
        potential learners and other beneficiaries.
        - Funding mechanisms to pay for this kind of educational system in a
        sustainable way.

        Content :
        Some people think of content for e-learning only in connection with
        formal course delivery - but here at Learning From Each Other I want us
        to think about informal e-learning as well.

        I hope that the discussions we will have here will be seen as part of
        our learning, as individuals and as a group. I hope we will be
        developing our group knowledge of ICT applied to learning - both in
        practice and in theory.

        Discussion of the development of our group knowledge brings us back once
        again to Open Content. I think of Open Content as a continuum. At one
        extreme is the kind of Open Content made available by MIT, which means
        all of us are all free to read course materials that previously were
        only available to registered MIT students. At the other extreme we have
        free flowing discussions such as the ones that Andrius is enabling
        through his groups. He has brought us, and others, into groups on the
        Internet to share ideas in an Open Content way.

        As I understand it, Andrius is using our discussions to generate "Open
        Content", and then using his own interventions, plus tagging, wiki
        pages, and RSS feeds to structure the information in ways that are more
        easily searchable. This organic-growth approach to Open Content is one
        that I find very appealing. I am very interested and want to learn more
        about Andrius' strategies so that I can apply them to other groups I
        work in - especially Cawdnet groups where we are involved in informal
        learning of one kind and another, and where we include information
        exchanges and collaborative work through the Internet. (Cawdnet is a
        network concerned with ICT4D - especially, but not exclusively, in rural
        Nigeria)

        I am also interested in the practicalities using an Open Content
        approach to share resources that have originally been developed to
        support traditional face to face teaching. This is both a general
        interest and also a specific one, regarding a course I am developing
        with Fantsuam Foundation (FF) called the "No Computer Computer Course"
        (NC3). (FF is part of Cawdnet.)

        I wonder, Paulo, how far your interest in Open Content springs from
        experience with the development and/or use of Free and Open Source
        Software (FOSS) - something that is very relevant regarding ICT use in
        rural Nigeria.

        In Cawdnet we are currently exploring the use of Moodle (which is Open
        Source) for our virtual meetings. It provides a meeting place for us on
        the Internet where we can work collaboratively. Moodle's course based
        structures mean that separate groups can "meet" in separate "locations"
        (as if they are on separate "courses") without unnecessary overlap and
        information overload. Within Moodle it is possible for groups members to
        exchange emails - so that part is similar to the way we are working here
        in Learning From Each Other. The course structure also means that groups
        can easily flip from a "very open" to a "very closed" approach to
        information exchanges - depending on the purpose. There are various
        other features that are interesting to us. Discovering the ways is which
        Moodle can (and can't) serve our needs is another part of the ICT4Ed
        learning experience.

        Benoit - regarding Moodle - I was very interested in the posting you
        sent a while back regarding Blackboard and Moodle and intellectual
        property etc - thank you.

        Paulo - I hope within this posting you have found areas of interest to
        you - Please share your thoughts again soon.

        Lurkers and others - I extend to you that hope and invitation as well -
        whether you have previously contributed here or if you are lurking -
        please introduce yourselves in this context and add your thoughts and
        perspectives to these discussions.

        Andrius - Thank you for bringing us together to explore these ideas and
        learn from each other.

        Pam
      • samuel kongere
        Dear Pamela and ALL, Good to hear of the open content management. I am saying that open content and educational procedures with Internet are going together
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 28, 2006
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          Dear Pamela and ALL,
           
          Good to hear of the open content management. I am saying that open content and educational procedures with Internet are going together with this time of Internet. I am also very happy to learn how Open content works and How I can find anyone or organization to make me learn or to be trained on open content management.
           
          Me, together with Maria Agnese Giraudo are very hopeful to get a distance learning chance to enable us have this experience about ICTS open content management. It is something which will make our understanding of Open Content management elaborate and understandable to both of us. Somebody with such an Idea should let us know on how to acquire such skills.
           
          From,
          Samwel


          Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
        • Paolo Pumilia
          ... Dear Pamela, i agree with you that the rise of a new educational system needs new structures and that surely building on new ground offers certain
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 29, 2006
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            On Saturday 26 August 2006 01:54, Pamela McLean wrote:
            > (...)
            > There are benefits in working in new ground. It seems to me that in any
            > area where there is already a well established educational system, there
            > will inevitably be structures and systems designed for the industrial
            > society - not for the information society of the 21st century. If the
            > structures and systems - the buildings, the roles, the thinking, and the
            > individual and group ways of behaving, have all taken their shape from
            > 19th and 20th century norms, then the potential of ICT will probably be
            > something of an "add on" - rather than being the catalyst - the main
            > force driving developments and structures. By contrast in areas where
            > 19th and 20th century educational systems are less well established (as
            > in rural Nigeria) new approaches to education, enabled through ICT,
            > could develop with greater freedom, in a more organic way (once the ICT
            > infrastructure breaks through.)

            Dear Pamela, i agree with you that the rise of a new educational system needs
            new structures and that surely building on new ground offers certain
            advantages over striving to trasform a well established system. Probably
            peculiar suggestions towards a new educational system will come from both
            contexts.

            Although 'open content' has no broadly accepted definition and being not so
            deeply studied yet, as the open source counterpart, in my opinion, some
            important organizational traits leading to successful open source projects
            could be transferred to the educational context. Open content projects, as
            thereafter outlined, could strongly support the innovation of the educational
            system.

            Paralleling the open source phenomenon, here is my view:
            Key concepts of open content successful project are
            - re-usability of 'objects', both on the technical and the law sides
            (the 'commons')
            - the peculiar community that forms and thrives in the commons, aimed at
            delivering and using a well defined 'product'.

            In such kind of communities solid and trusted connections are maintained
            between the 'project leaders' and the end-users through a consistent
            population of effective contributors, thus enpowering end-users to drive the
            project development ('shifting the locus of innovation towards users', after
            Von Hippel)
            However, project leaders are those in charge for success of the project
            (effectivess, long term planning, 'quality', etc).
            Out of project leader role features is the ability to understand, to feel,
            what is a real need in a professional sector, and to see how to provide an
            effective answer. That is the first step to start a successful project.

            Coming to the educational environment, my opinion is that open content project
            proposers should, at first stage, spend time to clear up which teachers' and
            students' real needs they intend to meet, before taking to forge manuals,
            lectures, 'knowledge objects', etc.
            In that process, directions for the rearrangement of the school/univ
            organization will be envisaged, together with the elaboration and the
            manifacturing of 'products'.
            As the project succeeds, an 'open community' will form, providing their
            incentive for the change of structures.



            >(...)
            > Discussion of the development of our group knowledge brings us back once
            > again to Open Content. I think of Open Content as a continuum. At one
            > extreme is the kind of Open Content made available by MIT, which means
            > all of us are all free to read course materials that previously were
            > only available to registered MIT students. At the other extreme we have
            > free flowing discussions such as the ones that Andrius is enabling
            > through his groups. He has brought us, and others, into groups on the
            > Internet to share ideas in an Open Content way.
            >

            Yes, i agree with your view, by and large. I have to admit i do not know much
            of the Andrius' experimentation on free flowing discussion (although we have
            known each other over years).

            --
            Paolo
          • Ramunas Janavicius
            Dear Pamela and Paolo, i think that recently published book would be in content of new education structures in far more broader sense: THE ECOLOGY OF LEARNING:
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 30, 2006
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              Dear Pamela and Paolo,

              i think that recently published book would be in content of new education structures in far more broader sense: THE ECOLOGY OF LEARNING: SUSTAINABILITY, LIFELONG LEARNING AND EVERYDAY LIFE , by John Blewitt, 2006, Sept., Earthscan
              I strongly believe that new, "open source thinking" is emerging
              form environmentalist perspective, what was already highlighted by Manuel Castells (Information Age trilogy) and Fritjof Capra (Web of Life).

              Regards,

              Ramunas
              Vilnius, Lithuania



              2006/8/30, Paolo Pumilia <paolo.pumilia@...>:
              On Saturday 26 August 2006 01:54, Pamela McLean wrote:
              > (...)
              > There are benefits in working in new ground. It seems to me that in any
              > area where there is already a well established educational system, there
              > will inevitably be structures and systems designed for the industrial
              > society - not for the information society of the 21st century.  If the
              > structures and systems - the buildings, the roles, the thinking, and the
              > individual and group ways of behaving, have all taken their shape from
              > 19th and 20th century norms, then the potential of ICT will probably be
              > something of an "add on" - rather than being the catalyst - the main
              > force driving developments and structures. By contrast in areas where
              > 19th and 20th century educational systems are less well established (as
              > in rural Nigeria) new approaches to education, enabled through ICT,
              > could develop with greater freedom, in a more organic way (once the ICT
              > infrastructure breaks through.)

              Dear Pamela, i agree with you that  the rise of a new educational system needs
              new structures and that surely building on new ground offers  certain
              advantages over striving to  trasform a well established system.  Probably
              peculiar suggestions towards a new educational system will come from both
              contexts.

              Although  'open content' has no broadly accepted definition and  being not so
              deeply studied yet, as the open source counterpart,  in my opinion, some
              important organizational traits leading to successful open source projects
              could be transferred to the educational context. Open content projects, as
              thereafter outlined, could strongly support the innovation of the educational
              system.

              Paralleling the open source phenomenon, here is my view:
              Key concepts of open content successful project are
                 - re-usability of 'objects', both on the technical and the law sides
              (the 'commons')
                 - the peculiar community that forms and thrives in the commons, aimed at
              delivering and using a well defined 'product'.

              In such kind of communities  solid and trusted connections are maintained
              between the 'project leaders' and the end-users through a consistent
              population of effective contributors, thus enpowering end-users to drive the
              project development  ('shifting the locus of innovation towards users', after
              Von Hippel)
              However, project leaders are those in charge for success of the project
              (effectivess,   long term planning, 'quality', etc).
              Out of project leader role features is the ability to understand, to feel,
              what is a real need in a professional sector, and to see how to provide an
              effective answer. That is the first step to start a successful project.

              Coming to the educational environment, my opinion is that open content project
              proposers should, at first stage, spend time to clear up which teachers' and
              students' real needs they intend to meet, before taking to forge manuals,
              lectures,  'knowledge objects', etc.
              In that process, directions for the rearrangement of the school/univ
              organization will be envisaged, together with the elaboration and the
              manifacturing of 'products'.
              As the project succeeds, an 'open community' will form, providing their
              incentive for the change of structures.



              >(...)
              > Discussion of the development of our group knowledge brings us back once
              > again to  Open Content.  I think of Open Content as a continuum.  At one
              > extreme is the kind of Open Content made available by MIT, which means
              > all of us are all free to read course materials that previously were
              > only available to registered MIT students.  At the other extreme we have
              > free flowing discussions such as the ones that Andrius is enabling
              > through his groups.  He has brought us, and others, into groups on the
              > Internet to share ideas in an Open Content way.
              >

              Yes, i  agree with your view, by and large. I have to admit i do not know much
              of the Andrius' experimentation on free flowing discussion (although we have
              known each other over years).

              --
              Paolo


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