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Re: [learningfromeachother] Can people be motivated?

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  • Edward Cherlin
    ... I fully agree. Our main target at OLPC and Sugar Labs is children who have lots of experience of a very limited reality and not enough of the world s
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 13 6:31 PM
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      On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 04:48, Pamela McLean <pam@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Ed
      >
      > Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
      >
      > Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
      >
      > Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda        http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
      > Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century        http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
      >
      > Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment. We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that (following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
      >
      > BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children "exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate issue.

      I fully agree. Our main target at OLPC and Sugar Labs is children who
      have lots of experience of a very limited reality and not enough of
      the world's information, of fantasy, of models of possibilities, of
      contact with other cultures, and of hints about what is worth checking
      out.

      It is one of the essential principles of scientific method that one
      must have both a mathematical or other model of what one proposes to
      study, and a set of carefully designed experiments and observations
      aimed at finding any flaws in that model. So, in fact, one must have a
      multitude of possible models, of which one or another may be favored
      for a particular sort of use, while others are more speculative, but
      could be put to use if they are confirmed and their rivals are
      falsified.

      So we can use an earth-centered model for celestial navigation,
      Newtonian gravity for the ordinary motions of planets and space
      probes, and General Relativity for the ultraprecise atomic clocks in
      orbit in the GPS system, and continue to run experiments such as
      Gravity Probe B, looking for ever-tinier relativistic effects that
      turn out to be essential in astrophysics and cosmology. (Full
      references available.) We still do not know how to do experiments in
      string theory or quantum gravity or any of the proposed Theories of
      Everything to select among them. But nobody knew how to test General
      Relativity when Einstein published it in 1915.

      It is essential to an education that incorporates science that one has
      keyboard and screen experience and also real-world experience, and
      understands how they connect. Also that one has a great deal of
      experience in detecting nonsense and falsehood.

      >
      > I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of "right answers" and include:
      >
      > Learn to tolerate uncertainty
      > Learn to ask your own questions
      > Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right answer"
      > Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right answer"
      > Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having "not the right answer"
      > Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers together

      Quite right. See, for example, The Difference: How the Power of
      Diversity Creates Better Groups, Firms, Schools, and Societies,by
      Scott E. Page, on the value of diversity in education, business,
      government, and so on.

      > BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I should touch on my reasons for reservations.
      >
      > I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in practice.

      I have the same reservations. Don't get me started on Computer Literacy.

      >
      > I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed general classroom practice later.

      Unfortunately Logo was pursued under the Computer Literacy policy,
      which allowed for its use for an hour or two a week, with no
      integration with any subject in the curriculum. We in the Sugar Labs
      Replacing Textbooks program are working on creating learning materials
      for every school subject, and many more besides, where the computer is
      an essential tool for exploration, whether in building models, doing
      calculations, or preparing documents and presentations on the
      computer, or using the measuring and recording capabilities of the
      computer to gather data for further analysis. See for example,

      http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/0/0e/Gravity.odt

      which is my reworking of an Alan Kay lesson on Galilean gravity for
      ten-year-olds. We build a model in Etoys Turtle Graphics or in the
      standalone Turtle Art activity, and then we capture video of a falling
      object in record, and manipulate it in Scratch to see that the model
      and the physics produce the same patterns. Then I ask the question why
      the Greeks, who had all of the mathematics needed, never worked this
      out.

      I also think that the children's introduction to Turtle Art should
      begin in preschool, where they get to be the turtles following
      directions and laying down trails of ribbons to make pictures. Then
      they get to tell others what to do, and experience the maddening
      insistence of a turtle on doing exactly what you told it to do, and
      not what you meant.

      >
      > The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one each" for those children who do get them.

      I don't understand. "Per child" means to me precisely "one each" (into
      in math jargon) and "for all children" (onto) both. It is what
      mathematicians call a one-to-one relation, and educators call
      one-to-one computing for the same reason. It is not One Laptop Per
      Some Children or Some Laptops Per All Children. Exactly "one per",
      neither more nor less.

      It is the responsibility of governments to buy enough for all of their
      schoolchildren. OLPC does not have the tens of billions of dollars
      annually required to do this. Uruguay was the first to reach this
      goal, and Peru will be next. Peru, in fact, is building an XO factory
      in the country. Rwanda, Ghana, and others have made the commitment,
      but are still working out the infrastructure issues, logistics,
      teacher training, and funding issues. Rwanda, for example, only got
      its first fiber optic cable last year.

      >
      > They have never come anywhere near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges: Digital technology in Africa when asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early days of the project.

      A President of Nigeria shook Nicholas Negroponte's hand and promised
      to buy XOs for all Nigerian children. He lost the next election, and
      the other party has shown no interest. Nicholas has publicly expressed
      his regret at failing to understand the difference between a handshake
      from a head of state and a signed purchase order backed by statutory
      authority to spend the money.

      Thailand was worse. The Prime Minister who shook Nicholas's hand was
      ousted in a coup. Libya turned out to be a bad joke.

      Brazil botched the bidding process under President Lula. One part of
      the government proposed letting educational computers in without
      paying import duties (100%), but failed to mention this to the part of
      the government conducting the bidding.

      Venezuela went with a different computer running Caixa Magica Linux
      rather than Fedora. Sugar Labs promptly ported Sugar to Caixa Magica,
      and I have a copy in Virtualbox.

      On the other hand, UNRWA has made a commitment to give every child in
      every Palestinian refugee camp school an XO, and has begun in Gaza.
      The Lebanon part of the project is under way, and there are
      negotiations with Syria.

      A large part of the problem of poverty that we are attacking is
      dysfunctional governments. We have some ideas about fixing that, such
      as a series of civics textbooks we want to produce, explaining not
      only how governments are supposed to work, but what to do when they
      don't. They will have to be translated into many languages and adapted
      to many different political and social situations.

      >
      > Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning" having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC has made that possible for some.

      I regard the XO-1, XO-1.5, XO-1.75, and XS computers as the best of
      the numerous alternatives that have been proposed and made available.
      The XO-3 promises to be even better. At the same time I am aware of
      their numerous and sometimes woeful inadequancies, such as the failure
      of mesh networking in schools. We don't have the funding to do a solid
      consumer-grade industrial design.

      I refuse to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

      >
      > Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look great .
      >
      > Pamela
      >
      > On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
      >> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned a
      >> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
      >> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.  We
      >> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
      >> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful lives
      >> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning with
      >> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
      >> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
      >>
      >> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
      >> lose our motivation? Education and society.
      >>
      >> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
      >> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
      >>
      >> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
      >> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
      >>
      >> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P. Seligman
      >
      > (snip)
      >
      --
      Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
      Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
      The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
      http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
    • Samwel Kongere
      Hello Ed and Pam, I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves. Intel introduced OLPC in our school in
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 21 10:41 AM
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        Hello Ed and Pam,
        I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves.
        Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not satisfying. They should
        be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
        Sam.

        On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:

        >Hi Ed
        >
        >Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
        >post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
        >and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
        >
        >Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
        >
        > - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
        > http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
        > - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
        > http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
        >
        >Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
        >We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
        >and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
        >(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
        >I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
        >that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
        >lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
        >Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
        >
        >BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
        >is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
        >"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
        >rather they had plenty of first hand experience - but that is a separate
        >issue.
        >
        >I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
        >opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
        >centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
        >"right answers" and include:
        >
        > - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
        > - Learn to ask your own questions
        > - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
        > answer"
        > - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
        > answer"
        > - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
        > "not the right answer"
        > - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
        > together
        >
        >BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
        >ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
        >should touch on my reasons for reservations.
        >
        >I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
        >practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
        >publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy - I was an infant
        >teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
        >of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
        >theory and classroom practice are not always the same - and I'm cynical
        >about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
        >initial enthusiasts' use of LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
        >general classroom practice later.
        >
        >The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
        >to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
        >gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
        >each" for those children who do get them. They have never come anywhere
        >near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
        >NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
        >Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
        >Digital technology in
        >Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-africa>when
        >asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
        >question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
        >that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
        >publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
        >days of the project.
        >
        >Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
        >having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
        >has made that possible for some.
        >
        >Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
        >great .
        >
        >Pamela
        >
        >On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
        >
        >>
        >>
        >> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
        >> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below. I learned
        >> a
        >> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
        >> > participate again. The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
        >> We
        >> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
        >> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
        >> lives
        >> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves? Reasoning with
        >> > people to be more motivated is quite weak. How can we get at our wills
        >> > and emotions? Any suggestions?"
        >>
        >> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
        >> lose our motivation? Education and society.
        >>
        >> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
        >> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
        >>
        >> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
        >> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
        >>
        >> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
        >> Seligman
        >>
        >> (snip)
      • Edward Cherlin
        ... Nicholas Negroponte has compared this Computer Literacy approach with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils and paper, where
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 21 11:47 AM
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          On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:41, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
          > Hello Ed and Pam,
          > I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves.
          >  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not satisfying. They should  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
          > Sam.

          Nicholas Negroponte has compared this "Computer Literacy" approach
          with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils
          and paper, where children are allowed in once a week, but they cannot
          use any of it for classwork or homework. How many of them do you think
          would become literate?

          > On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:
          >
          >>Hi Ed
          >>
          >>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
          >>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
          >>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
          >>
          >>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
          >>
          >>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
          >>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
          >>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
          >>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
          >>
          >>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
          >>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
          >>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
          >>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
          >>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
          >>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
          >>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
          >>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
          >>
          >>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
          >>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
          >>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
          >>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
          >>issue.
          >>
          >>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
          >>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
          >>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
          >>"right answers" and include:
          >>
          >>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
          >>   - Learn to ask your own questions
          >>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
          >>   answer"
          >>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
          >>   answer"
          >>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
          >>   "not the right answer"
          >>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
          >>   together
          >>
          >>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
          >>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
          >>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
          >>
          >>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
          >>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
          >>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
          >>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
          >>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
          >>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
          >>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
          >>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
          >>general classroom practice later.
          >>
          >>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
          >>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
          >>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
          >>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
          >>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
          >>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
          >>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
          >>Digital technology in
          >>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-africa>when
          >>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
          >>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
          >>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
          >>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
          >>days of the project.
          >>
          >>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
          >>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
          >>has made that possible for some.
          >>
          >>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
          >>great .
          >>
          >>Pamela
          >>
          >>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
          >>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned
          >>> a
          >>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
          >>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
          >>>  We
          >>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
          >>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
          >>> lives
          >>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning with
          >>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
          >>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
          >>>
          >>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
          >>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
          >>>
          >>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
          >>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
          >>>
          >>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
          >>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
          >>>
          >>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
          >>> Seligman
          >>>
          >>> (snip)
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
          Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
          The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
          http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
        • Samwel Kongere
          Thanks Ed. Motivation is broad based, it is for all of us children, academic stakeholders, infact every of us needs recognition while in most Africa schools it
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 23 4:45 AM
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            Thanks Ed.
            Motivation is broad based, it is for all of us children, academic stakeholders, infact every of us needs recognition while in most Africa schools it is based on test- result oriented.

            The main core business of learning is academic & education excellence, standard improved, skills maintained, volume of work where a problem is identified. We should give the children what they desire and deserve.

            For us to succeed we have to remember (1) our history, (2)committments in place, (3) piriority and (4) a specific desired goal. Anyway, who wants to be a failure! Infact nobody! Education is life.
            Samwel.

            On Tue Jun 21st, 2011 6:47 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:

            >On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:41, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
            >> Hello Ed and Pam,
            >> I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves.
            >>  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not satisfying. They should  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
            >> Sam.
            >
            >Nicholas Negroponte has compared this "Computer Literacy" approach
            >with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils
            >and paper, where children are allowed in once a week, but they cannot
            >use any of it for classwork or homework. How many of them do you think
            >would become literate?
            >
            >> On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:
            >>
            >>>Hi Ed
            >>>
            >>>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
            >>>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
            >>>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
            >>>
            >>>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
            >>>
            >>>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
            >>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
            >>>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
            >>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
            >>>
            >>>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
            >>>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
            >>>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
            >>>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
            >>>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
            >>>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
            >>>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
            >>>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
            >>>
            >>>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
            >>>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
            >>>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
            >>>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
            >>>issue.
            >>>
            >>>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
            >>>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
            >>>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
            >>>"right answers" and include:
            >>>
            >>>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
            >>>   - Learn to ask your own questions
            >>>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
            >>>   answer"
            >>>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
            >>>   answer"
            >>>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
            >>>   "not the right answer"
            >>>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
            >>>   together
            >>>
            >>>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
            >>>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
            >>>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
            >>>
            >>>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
            >>>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
            >>>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
            >>>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
            >>>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
            >>>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
            >>>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
            >>>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
            >>>general classroom practice later.
            >>>
            >>>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
            >>>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
            >>>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
            >>>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
            >>>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
            >>>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
            >>>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
            >>>Digital technology in
            >>>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-africa>when
            >>>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
            >>>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
            >>>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
            >>>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
            >>>days of the project.
            >>>
            >>>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
            >>>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
            >>>has made that possible for some.
            >>>
            >>>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
            >>>great .
            >>>
            >>>Pamela
            >>>
            >>>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
            >>>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned
            >>>> a
            >>>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
            >>>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
            >>>>  We
            >>>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
            >>>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
            >>>> lives
            >>>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning with
            >>>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
            >>>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
            >>>>
            >>>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
            >>>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
            >>>>
            >>>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
            >>>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
            >>>>
            >>>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
            >>>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
            >>>>
            >>>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
            >>>> Seligman
            >>>>
            >>>> (snip)
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >--
            >Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
            >Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
            >The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
            >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
          • Edward Cherlin
            ... The main core business of education has historically been to support and preserve empires by systematically shutting out students from the most important
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 23 11:51 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 07:45, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
              > Thanks Ed.
              > Motivation is broad based, it is for all of us children, academic stakeholders, infact every of us needs recognition while in most Africa schools it is based on test- result oriented.
              >
              > The main core business of learning is academic & education excellence, standard improved,  skills maintained, volume of work where a problem is identified.

              The main core business of education has historically been to support
              and preserve empires by systematically shutting out students from the
              most important subjects, notably effective civics. The best and the
              brightest were to be co-opted into the ruling class. Since former
              colonies have achieved independence, they have almost all maintained
              their colonial education systems, and just switched its allegiance to
              a new ruling class.

              None of this is in any way suited to the needs of a free people.

              We now have the opportunity for students to contact each other, and to
              bypass teachers, textbook and curriculum committees, and ruling
              political parties in order to find out for themselves what is worth
              learning. In this way we can create a new generation of free learning
              materials to be made available to all children and to their friends
              and relations.

              > We should give the children what they desire and deserve.
              >
              > For us to succeed we have to remember (1) our history, (2)committments in place, (3) piriority and (4) a specific desired goal. Anyway, who wants to be a failure! Infact nobody! Education is life.
              > Samwel.
              >
              > On Tue Jun 21st, 2011 6:47 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:
              >
              >>On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:41, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
              >>> Hello Ed and Pam,
              >>> I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves.
              >>>  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not satisfying. They should  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
              >>> Sam.
              >>
              >>Nicholas Negroponte has compared this "Computer Literacy" approach
              >>with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils
              >>and paper, where children are allowed in once a week, but they cannot
              >>use any of it for classwork or homework. How many of them do you think
              >>would become literate?
              >>
              >>> On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:
              >>>
              >>>>Hi Ed
              >>>>
              >>>>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
              >>>>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
              >>>>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
              >>>>
              >>>>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
              >>>>
              >>>>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
              >>>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
              >>>>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
              >>>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
              >>>>
              >>>>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
              >>>>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
              >>>>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
              >>>>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
              >>>>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
              >>>>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
              >>>>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
              >>>>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
              >>>>
              >>>>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
              >>>>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
              >>>>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
              >>>>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
              >>>>issue.
              >>>>
              >>>>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
              >>>>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
              >>>>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
              >>>>"right answers" and include:
              >>>>
              >>>>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
              >>>>   - Learn to ask your own questions
              >>>>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
              >>>>   answer"
              >>>>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
              >>>>   answer"
              >>>>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
              >>>>   "not the right answer"
              >>>>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
              >>>>   together
              >>>>
              >>>>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
              >>>>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
              >>>>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
              >>>>
              >>>>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
              >>>>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
              >>>>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
              >>>>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
              >>>>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
              >>>>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
              >>>>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
              >>>>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
              >>>>general classroom practice later.
              >>>>
              >>>>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
              >>>>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
              >>>>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
              >>>>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
              >>>>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
              >>>>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
              >>>>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
              >>>>Digital technology in
              >>>>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-africa>when
              >>>>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
              >>>>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
              >>>>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
              >>>>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
              >>>>days of the project.
              >>>>
              >>>>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
              >>>>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
              >>>>has made that possible for some.
              >>>>
              >>>>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
              >>>>great .
              >>>>
              >>>>Pamela
              >>>>
              >>>>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
              >>>>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned
              >>>>> a
              >>>>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
              >>>>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
              >>>>>  We
              >>>>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
              >>>>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
              >>>>> lives
              >>>>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning with
              >>>>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
              >>>>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
              >>>>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
              >>>>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
              >>>>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
              >>>>> Seligman
              >>>>>
              >>>>> (snip)
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> ------------------------------------
              >>>
              >>> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>--
              >>Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
              >>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
              >>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
              >>http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > A Focus is being made on having a wireless internet connection for the
              > community to help them have a place for information handling and
              > transfer. There is motive of taking risks to help the community Develop.
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
              Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
              The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
              http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
            • Dan Otedo
              Kageno introduced the Classmate http://blogs.intel.com/csr/2010/03/intel_education_service_corps_7.php and
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 27 1:11 PM
              Yeah it is great leaving kids with the XO and Classmate,but teacher facilitation is crucial.Technology is not an end ,its just a means to an end.Whenkids are exposed to great interactive software, they learn in an amazing way. 
               
              Dan OTEDO
              Kenya ICT Trust Fund. P.O box 8475-00100 Nairobi.
              Tel: +254203745911 .Mobile:+254720366094
              Email: dotedo@... 
               

              From: Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...>
              To: learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com; post@...; mendenyo@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2011, 20:41
              Subject: Re: [learningfromeachother] Can people be motivated?

               
              Hello Ed and Pam,
              I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves.
              Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not satisfying. They should
              be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
              Sam.

              On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:

              >Hi Ed
              >
              >Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
              >post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
              >and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
              >
              >Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
              >
              > - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
              > http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
              > - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
              > http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
              >
              >Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
              >We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
              >and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
              >(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
              >I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
              >that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
              >lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
              >Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
              >
              >BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
              >is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
              >"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
              >rather they had plenty of first hand experience - but that is a separate
              >issue.
              >
              >I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
              >opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
              >centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
              >"right answers" and include:
              >
              > - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
              > - Learn to ask your own questions
              > - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
              > answer"
              > - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
              > answer"
              > - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
              > "not the right answer"
              > - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
              > together
              >
              >BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
              >ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
              >should touch on my reasons for reservations.
              >
              >I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
              >practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
              >publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy - I was an infant
              >teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
              >of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
              >theory and classroom practice are not always the same - and I'm cynical
              >about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
              >initial enthusiasts' use of LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
              >general classroom practice later.
              >
              >The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
              >to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
              >gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
              >each" for those children who do get them. They have never come anywhere
              >near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
              >NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
              >Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
              >Digital technology in
              >Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-africa>when
              >asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
              >question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
              >that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
              >publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
              >days of the project.
              >
              >Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
              >having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
              >has made that possible for some.
              >
              >Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
              >great .
              >
              >Pamela
              >
              >On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
              >> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below. I learned
              >> a
              >> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
              >> > participate again. The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
              >> We
              >> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
              >> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
              >> lives
              >> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves? Reasoning with
              >> > people to be more motivated is quite weak. How can we get at our wills
              >> > and emotions? Any suggestions?"
              >>
              >> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
              >> lose our motivation? Education and society.
              >>
              >> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
              >> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
              >>
              >> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
              >> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
              >>
              >> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
              >> Seligman
              >>
              >> (snip)



            • Pamela McLean
              Hi Sam, Ed and everyone. I have just discovered this thread - somehow I missed it - maybe you can share more of your thoughts and experiences on this. Sam I
              Message 7 of 11 , Aug 9, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Sam, Ed and everyone.

                I have just discovered this thread - somehow I missed it - maybe you can share more of your thoughts and experiences on this.

                Sam I loved the way you finished this " Anyway, who wants to be a failure! Infact nobody! Education is life."

                Pam

                On 23 June 2011 12:45, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
                 

                Thanks Ed.
                Motivation is broad based, it is for all of us children, academic stakeholders, infact every of us needs recognition while in most Africa schools it is based on test- result oriented.

                The main core business of learning is academic & education excellence, standard improved, skills maintained, volume of work where a problem is identified. We should give the children what they desire and deserve.

                For us to succeed we have to remember (1) our history, (2)committments in place, (3) piriority and (4) a specific desired goal. Anyway, who wants to be a failure! Infact nobody! Education is life.
                Samwel.

                On Tue Jun 21st, 2011 6:47 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:

                >On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:41, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
                >> Hello Ed and Pam,
                >> I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves.
                >>  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not satisfying. They should  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
                >> Sam.
                >
                >Nicholas Negroponte has compared this "Computer Literacy" approach
                >with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils
                >and paper, where children are allowed in once a week, but they cannot
                >use any of it for classwork or homework. How many of them do you think
                >would become literate?
                >
                >> On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:
                >>
                >>>Hi Ed
                >>>
                >>>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
                >>>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
                >>>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
                >>>
                >>>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
                >>>
                >>>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
                >>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
                >>>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
                >>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
                >>>
                >>>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
                >>>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
                >>>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
                >>>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
                >>>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
                >>>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
                >>>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
                >>>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
                >>>
                >>>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
                >>>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
                >>>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
                >>>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
                >>>issue.
                >>>
                >>>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
                >>>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
                >>>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
                >>>"right answers" and include:
                >>>
                >>>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
                >>>   - Learn to ask your own questions
                >>>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
                >>>   answer"
                >>>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
                >>>   answer"
                >>>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
                >>>   "not the right answer"
                >>>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
                >>>   together
                >>>
                >>>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
                >>>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
                >>>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
                >>>
                >>>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
                >>>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
                >>>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
                >>>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
                >>>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
                >>>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
                >>>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
                >>>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
                >>>general classroom practice later.
                >>>
                >>>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
                >>>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
                >>>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
                >>>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
                >>>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
                >>>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
                >>>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
                >>>Digital technology in
                >>>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-africa>when
                >>>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
                >>>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
                >>>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
                >>>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
                >>>days of the project.
                >>>
                >>>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
                >>>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
                >>>has made that possible for some.
                >>>
                >>>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
                >>>great .
                >>>
                >>>Pamela
                >>>
                >>>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
                >>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
                >>>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned
                >>>> a
                >>>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
                >>>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
                >>>>  We
                >>>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
                >>>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
                >>>> lives
                >>>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning with
                >>>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
                >>>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
                >>>>
                >>>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
                >>>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
                >>>>
                >>>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
                >>>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
                >>>>
                >>>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
                >>>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
                >>>>
                >>>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
                >>>> Seligman
                >>>>
                >>>> (snip)
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >--
                >Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
                >Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
                >The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
                >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks


              • Samwel Kongere
                Ok Pam Thanks for recognizing this. Sam   Social Community Network/Information Coordinator, Suba/Mbita-Kenya Aliving hope is desire When it is socially
                Message 8 of 11 , Aug 11, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ok Pam

                  Thanks for recognizing this.
                  Sam
                   



                  Social Community Network/Information Coordinator,
                  Suba/Mbita-Kenya
                  'Aliving hope is desire' When it is socially lived!


                  From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@...>
                  To: mendenyo@yahoogroups.com; learningfromeachother <learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 2:54 AM
                  Subject: Re: [mendenyo] Can people be motivated?

                   
                  Hi Sam, Ed and everyone.

                  I have just discovered this thread - somehow I missed it - maybe you can share more of your thoughts and experiences on this.

                  Sam I loved the way you finished this " Anyway, who wants to be a failure! Infact nobody! Education is life."

                  Pam

                  On 23 June 2011 12:45, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
                   
                  Thanks Ed.
                  Motivation is broad based, it is for all of us children, academic stakeholders, infact every of us needs recognition while in most Africa schools it is based on test- result oriented.

                  The main core business of learning is academic & education excellence, standard improved, skills maintained, volume of work where a problem is identified. We should give the children what they desire and deserve.

                  For us to succeed we have to remember (1) our history, (2)committments in place, (3) piriority and (4) a specific desired goal. Anyway, who wants to be a failure! Infact nobody! Education is life.
                  Samwel.

                  On Tue Jun 21st, 2011 6:47 AM Etc/GMT+12 Edward Cherlin wrote:

                  >On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:41, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
                  >> Hello Ed and Pam,
                  >> I have found out that children should be left actually need to explore computers themselves.
                  >>  Intel introduced OLPC in our school in collaboration with a local NGO but the children are not impressed because only bring the keypad once a week but not satisfying. They should  be motivated to explore and get the real adventure.
                  >> Sam.
                  >
                  >Nicholas Negroponte has compared this "Computer Literacy" approach
                  >with creating a room full of books and chairs and tables and pencils
                  >and paper, where children are allowed in once a week, but they cannot
                  >use any of it for classwork or homework. How many of them do you think
                  >would become literate?
                  >
                  >> On Sun Jun 12th, 2011 8:48 PM Etc/GMT+12 Pamela McLean wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>Hi Ed
                  >>>
                  >>>Once again it looks like we are thinking on similar lines, so I'll take your
                  >>>post as an excuse to add my opinions on the topic of motivation and learning
                  >>>and our destructive out-moded educational systems.
                  >>>
                  >>>Some references to "the problem ref out-moded educational systems":
                  >>>
                  >>>   - Fwd - youtube - Education system needs rethinking: Sam Pitroda
                  >>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-youtube-education-system-needs-rethinking
                  >>>   - Fwd - The Changing Role of the Teacher in the 21st Century
                  >>>   http://dadamac.posterous.com/fwd-the-changing-role-of-the-teacher-in-the-2
                  >>>
                  >>>Young children are compulsive learners and explorers of their environment.
                  >>>We also find some adults who are learners and explorers of their environment
                  >>>and/or explorers of ideas. Now more of us are able to be like that
                  >>>(following our learning interests) through the Internet, which is great. As
                  >>>I see it one of the great challenges is to change the education system so
                  >>>that it helps children to all continue as genuine learners throughout their
                  >>>lives (inside and outside the education system) including their use of the
                  >>>Internet, as it becomes accessible to them.
                  >>>
                  >>>BTW The value of learning through first hand exploration and investigation
                  >>>is also very important, which is why I don't like to see very young children
                  >>>"exploring" too much through the mediation of a keypad and screen, I'd
                  >>>rather they had plenty of first hand experience  - but that is a separate
                  >>>issue.
                  >>>
                  >>>I think there are various ideas which are important and which are in
                  >>>opposition to standard educational systems inherited from the 19th and 20th
                  >>>centuries. These have to do with questioning the validity of a culture of
                  >>>"right answers" and include:
                  >>>
                  >>>   - Learn to tolerate uncertainty
                  >>>   - Learn to ask your own questions
                  >>>   - Be suspicious of questions where you are expected to give "the right
                  >>>   answer"
                  >>>   - Be suspicious of environments where you are expected to give "the right
                  >>>   answer"
                  >>>   - Be suspicious of situations where you benefit from other people having
                  >>>   "not the right answer"
                  >>>   - Look for situations where everyone benefits from finding good answers
                  >>>   together
                  >>>
                  >>>BTW - regarding onscreen learning I know your enthusiasm for OLPC and the
                  >>>ideas behind that. You know I have reservations regarding OLPC so probably I
                  >>>should touch on my reasons for reservations.
                  >>>
                  >>>I'm in favour of much of the pedagogy of OLPC - if it is carried through in
                  >>>practice. I do like Papert's ideas. Back when Mindstorms was due for
                  >>>publication over here I was in the queue to get a copy  - I was  an infant
                  >>>teacher experimenting with computers in my classroom and I was a great fan
                  >>>of Seymour Papert. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert. However
                  >>>theory and classroom practice are not always the same  - and I'm cynical
                  >>>about the possible gaps between OLPC theory and practice having observed the
                  >>>initial enthusiasts' use of  LOGO and turtle graphics and also observed
                  >>>general classroom practice later.
                  >>>
                  >>>The main complaint I have about OLPC is not pedagogy, it is simply related
                  >>>to the "per child" part of the name, and the fact that (in my opinion) this
                  >>>gives the impression these computers are "for all children" rather than "one
                  >>>each" for those children who do get them.  They have never come anywhere
                  >>>near the children and teachers in the kind of schools I connect with in
                  >>>NIgeria, and are unlikely to do so. (As evidence I hoped to refer you to
                  >>>Negroponte's answer at a recent London event 21st Century Challenges:
                  >>>Digital technology in
                  >>>Africa<http://www.dadamac.net/event/21st-century-challenges-digital-technology-africa>when
                  >>>asked by a Nigerian about Nigeria getting involved in OLPC - but the
                  >>>question hasn't been included in the videos.) NB Before anyone contradicts
                  >>>that statement I should probably say that I am aware of the highly
                  >>>publicised single school in Nigeria that did have OLPCs in the very early
                  >>>days of the project.
                  >>>
                  >>>Like you I am in favour of children who are "agents of their own learning"
                  >>>having access to computers, and (whether or not it is the ideal system) OLPC
                  >>>has made that possible for some.
                  >>>
                  >>>Thanks for sharing the book details. They are new to me. The titles look
                  >>>great .
                  >>>
                  >>>Pamela
                  >>>
                  >>>On 15 May 2011 16:43, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:09, <ms@...> wrote:
                  >>>> > Charles Paidock, Thank you for sharing the information below.  I learned
                  >>>> a
                  >>>> > lot speaking at Prof. Bob Lichtenbert's event last month and I hope to
                  >>>> > participate again.  The topic of Motivation is relevant for Cyfranogi.
                  >>>>  We
                  >>>> > might discuss the question online and I could share our thoughts at the
                  >>>> > upcoming meeting. "Can people be motivated to pursue more meaningful
                  >>>> lives
                  >>>> > in all ways other than by finding this within themselves?  Reasoning with
                  >>>> > people to be more motivated is quite weak.  How can we get at our wills
                  >>>> > and emotions?   Any suggestions?"
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Children don't have a problem with this. What happens to us to make us
                  >>>> lose our motivation? Education and society.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> I particularly recommend Vivian Gussin Paley's little book, You Can't
                  >>>> Say You Can't Play, on this point. Also
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control by
                  >>>> Christopher Peterson, Steven F. Maier and Martin E. P. Seligman
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life by Martin E. P.
                  >>>> Seligman
                  >>>>
                  >>>> (snip)
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> Each letter sent to Learning From Each Other enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org  Please be kind to our authors!Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >--
                  >Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
                  >Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
                  >The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
                  >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks




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