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Displaying and thinking about our values, questions, endeavors, dreams

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  • Andrius Kulikauskas
    Dante, Thank you for your letter! I m grappling with improving our websites and thus with the issues you raise. How best to display and make use of our data
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 26, 2009

      Thank you for your letter! I'm grappling with improving our websites
      and thus with the issues you raise. How best to display and make use of
      our data about our values, questions, endeavor, dreams such as we have at:
      and content that we're getting from our letters, our wiki pages,
      comments and that we see from blogs etc. on the web. How to encourage
      meaningful response? How to credit those who are most active and
      helpful and then focus on supporting their dreams and provide them with
      paid work? How to organize an "economy of dreams"?

      I'm very interested to work together. It's most helpful for me if we
      can organize around supporting your own use of our websites because then
      at least one person (you!) will benefit and participate and we can learn
      and build further from that. I want to avoid building systems that
      nobody wants or uses.

      I've set up the page we have for you here:
      (it's problematic including a hyphen in your name, is it ok without?)
      and I've created a page for your endeavor:

      You had many links from before to http://coforum.oikoumene.net What
      happened to those pages?

      I can output an RSS stream if that would be useful. What RSS reader do
      you use?

      I'm thinking of looking through our letters to collect material that
      we're writing about our values, dreams, endeavors, questions and see how
      to present that so we might support that. In particular, to feed that
      into our list of tasks http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Tasks and make
      that more effective. I've sent Fred Kayiwa $100. He's been helping for
      free with tasks and I've been training him and we're working further on
      that and hopefully can help all of our projects. This is part of my
      "help room proposal" http://www.helproom.org/proposal/


      Andrius Kulikauskas
      Minciu Sodas

      Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:
      > Thanks Andrius for your reply !
      > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...
      > <mailto:ms@...>> wrote:
      > Hi Dante,
      > Currently there are two pages where you can see all or most of
      > Minciu Sodas related activity:
      > http://www.ms.lt
      > Thanks ! Just noticed these ( very recent ? ) changes.
      > I now understand that one moved the rss feed to "/news"
      > http://www.ms.lt/news.php
      > I'm working to improve them and your letter is a great help. I'm
      > also starting to distinguish more Minciu Sodas (my own lab) from
      > Worknets (a broader culture). For example, Michel's group will be
      > in Worknets but outside of Minciu Sodas.
      > Most people are in only one group and so it's not so complicated.
      > By having a system of groups they get less mail, there is more
      > room for different topics and they have the option to sign up for
      > more groups. The simplest way to respond is to simply reply in
      > whatever groups you receive a letter. I and others can carry your
      > letter further.
      > We're improving our ways of interacting, especially by supporting
      > our active participants. I welcome your participation and your
      > suggestions. Kiyavilo Msekwa's Learn How to Learn is where we're
      > working on our interfaces and so I share your letter there, too:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learnhowtolearn/
      > Thats interesting.
      > Hmm, somehow, I feel many intentions and specific objectives cross
      > each other,
      > and sometimes I feel there are related words used, but in different
      > contexts.
      > It would be interesting to see how different people related to MS, and
      > active in different groups, "tag" each of these groups, and see how
      > they "bridge" with each other.
      > The diversity of groups, people, and contexts, makes it rich, but at
      > the same time makes it more difficult for me to understand how to
      > bridge them, especially if and when each list develops its own
      > meanings based on the overlaying contexts of exchanges, sometimes even
      > developing their own vocabulary in the process.
      > If I remember properly, there is a group facilitated by Pamela McLean
      > on "Learning from each other".
      > This, after visiting the groups description, seems to be different
      > from the "Learning to learn" group facilitated by Kiyavilo Msekwa, yet
      > at the same time, I imagine, might have potential similarities in the
      > process of "learning together" ?
      > The "learning to learn" group seems, from what I understand by reading
      > a description, to be focused on one increasing access to information
      > and communication,
      > setting up information technologies infrastructures , and learning how
      > to set them up ? ... as to open up further potential through using
      > such infrastructures... to learn to learn ?
      > In other words ( vocabulary ? ) , I guess my impression at first is
      > that it is related to "digital divide" issues ? And perhaps more
      > specifically ,
      > not "digital divide" issues at a power politics level ( such as
      > lobbying for the financing for setting up infrastructure ), but
      > apparently more "digital divide" on the field itself, in specific
      > environments, with people that know each other , or can meet face to
      > face ?
      > ---
      > Could it be useful to enable users to add tags to their understanding
      > of a group ?
      > Specific tags for each of the following ? :
      > - context of a group
      > - intentions
      > - short therm and long therm potential specific objectives ?
      > Then, when I have an issue, or if I want to share something, I could
      > see a "tag cloud".
      > Also, contexts , intentions and objectives of groups can evolve,
      > and seing the evolution of "tags" along time,
      > might perhaps make it easier to find out with what group to share and
      > collaborate according to whatever interest or situation one may be in ?
      > I also do not believe that this kind of tagging would need to be
      > centralized.
      > I m thinking more of making it possible for people to tag along...
      > I for example use delicious very much. ( http://delicious.com )
      > There are other social bookmarking systems... perhaps even some open
      > code that could make it possible to converge tagging of emails ( or a
      > way to converge meta-information relating to interactions ) and other
      > materials ?
      > ----
      > I already feel Andrius might propose me to start my own group to
      > discuss this ;-)
      > ... I do feel there is a lot of potential in making it possible for
      > people to understand context, intentions, questions, objectives, ...
      > I feel Andrius approach of asking what is "meaningful" for us already
      > leads us to give some replies , and already makes it easier to
      > position ourselves towards life in general, and towards others and the
      > contexts in which we are, as to eventually lead to further
      > collaborations in pursuing such "endeavours" :-)
      > I feel that we can go a step further, by enabling meta-data to be
      > visualized...
      > Meta-data related to our ongoing questions, and how they relate to
      > other peoples questions,
      > meta data related to our situations, to th contexts we face, and how
      > they evolve, etc
      > It may involve an opening up of potential for stigmergy, for forms of
      > distributed cognition,
      > and possibly also,
      > I hope, lead to forms of "Human based Computation",
      > building on connections between granular elements,
      > and offering a variety of protocols to facilitate synergies through
      > inter-dependence,
      > eventually reclaiming independence on inter-dependence,
      > such as through protocols such as
      > http://cashwiki.org/en/Debt_to_Intention
      > ...
      > enabling a greater visualization, greater reflexivity, through
      > holoptic systems,
      > and the possibility to immerse ourselves , and communicate, through a
      > post symbolic visual contextual language.
      > Dante
      > http://hitchwiki.org/en/Dante
      > Andrius
      > Andrius Kulikauskas
      > Minciu Sodas
      > http://www.ms.lt
      > ms@... <mailto:ms@...>
      > -----------------------------------------
      > Hi Andrius,
      > nice to see you met with Michel.
      > by the way,
      > there are so many different lists related to ms ( minciu sodas ),
      > that I sometimes have difficulties understanding which list is for
      > what.
      > Or more precisely, what kind of interaction I can have on what list.
      > The best way for me to find out is to find the rss stream ( which
      > was - still is... somewhere else ? - on http://ms.lt )
      > and had links to the different groups...
      > I used to think , before franz reacted on it ( this was some two
      > years ago - when i understood that gv is not ms )
      > that it was more convenient to send mails to communicate with ms
      > people through global villages list.
      > So I personally do not have difficulties with volumes of email,
      > but rather of visualizing and understanding the subtle
      > developments of intention in each list, and the connections or
      > interactions between various lists, as I sometimes do not follow
      > up on a list for a few months.
      > *I would personally like to see the rss stream of all ms related
      > lists and sites ( as it was before ? ),*
      > *or better still, I wondered if it would be possible to subscribe
      > to one rss feed which would already converge all minciu sodas
      > related activities,*
      > *
      > *
      > *so that I could directly include it into my reader ?*
      > Feel free to fwd or re: to this message to relevant ms lists :-)
      > Thanks !
      > All the best !
      > Dante
      > ps: well, another solution is simply for me to converge all my
      > subscriptions into one ms folder, but then i tend to get mixed up
      > and still do not know what list is for what...
      > so perhaps the rss feed is not the answer ... i can think about
      > how this visualization could be made easier... what concerns
      > overview on each groups intentions, activity of each group, and
      > cross-activities between groups or from members that are on
      > several groups... ?
      > have no total answer yet... just raising the topic... :-)
      > ---------------------------------------
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