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Re: [learningfromeachother] WWP - more books/summaries of chapters posted to forums?/Chris: Mostofa

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  • christopher macrae
    Janet you asked about mostofa and youth forums ... I am not sure I know the particular context so have copied mostofa in case he has additional info   I know
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 21, 2008
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      Janet you asked about mostofa and youth forums ... I am not sure I know the particular context so have copied mostofa in case he has additional info

       

      I know he has set up a youth and schools support community in his own locality in bangladesh;

       

      I know that he will be helping several student unions pilot yunus forums when the new undergraduate year starts

       

      I also know that he is connnecting with clinton university youth social actions, a network that aims to interconnect 800 universities- I am not uptodate as to how africa comes into this

       

      I somehow feel that where people group together in a rural setting to develop apprenticeships -and start to network replication of this across several localities - and become an association of youth entrepreneur creation, they should try writing in to clinton to say we may not be an official university but we would still like to join in

       

      perhaps how a region of communities accounts for its youth is a fundamemntal metric we should be demanding more attention to - I expect this has to come from people up not government down

      --- On Tue, 22/7/08, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:

      From: Janet Feldman <kaippg@...>
      Subject: Re: [learningfromeachother] WWP - more books/summaries of chapters posted to forums?/Chris: Mostofa
      To: learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com, "christopher macrae" <chris.macrae@...>, holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, 22 July, 2008, 12:50 AM

      Dear Pam, Chris, David, and All,
       
      Immense thanks for this inspiring news, Pam and Chris, and I'm glad to see David here again, esp related to solar power and the excellent work he has done (and you, Pam) in this field. I've talked with Fred Ouko of KCYP abt coming into our forums, by the way, and he seems eager (this was initially related to POP, but am sure the interest will "migrate" :)).
       
      I'm sorry I have not been able to be more present for these discussions, but hope to do so in the fall. For now I wanted to say that I am so heartened to hear that there might be a chapter summary available at some point, and hope that will be shared widely with the forums, as poverty and its amelioration--as well as eradication!--is so crucial to all of our discussions and projects, no matter what the subject.
       
      Would it be possible to do this for each of the chapters (posting the summary on the forums), so we could all share in the "reading" and wisdom/insights in WWP, even if we are not able to read the book ourselves or engage in the discussion group?
       
      Chris, at one point last fall, Mostofa wrote to say that he wanted to start a Yunus-related youth forum. Has this happened yet, and if so, how can we be involved? 
       
      Thanks immensely for your great work on this subject (Pam, Chris, Ken, David, and all), and blessings to everyone! Janet
       
      ps Pam, you have also written wonderful mails on the subjects of education and insights that might be helpful to Andrius and I in our discussions of command/consensus structures. I did read those and hope to give you the thoughtful reply you deserve as soon as I can!
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 2:08 PM
      Subject: [learningfromeachother] WWP - more books

      Chris and everyone

      By now David Mutua should be safely on the plane flying home to Kenya.

      On Saturday we were able to meet Sofia Bustamante at the Brixton Hive, and we collected ten copies of the Mohammed Yunus book Creating a World Without Poverty, for use in East Africa. Thank you for making this possible Chris.

      I was also able to introduce David to Mamading and Tav.

      Tav and Sofia had just come back from making videos about the work of Mohammed Yunus. When the videos are edited they will be short and I hope they will help us to learn.  If they might be useful then we will need to find the best way for people to see them. I think  that they will be on youtube, but I wonder if people in cyber cafes can watch youtube ok. Video can take a long time to download.  A cyber cafe manager may not provide sound. Not everyone can get to a cyber cafe. There are various possible problems. We will need to rub minds once we know more about the videos and their relevance.

      Mamading told us that he has written a summary of chapter one of "Creating a World Without Poverty". I am hoping we will be able to share it through LearningFromEachOther.

      Pam




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    • Pamela McLean
      Chris you asked for news of the books. I m not sure if you will have seen the email below from Samwel Kongere. Samwel, Ken Owino, Maria Agnese and I met in the
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 8, 2008
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        Chris you asked for news of the books. I'm not sure if you will have seen the email below from Samwel Kongere.

        Samwel, Ken Owino, Maria Agnese and I met in the chatroom  yesterday to discuss the ideas in the book. Our discussion is in the chatroom archives. The book is  stimulating deep thought, and providing useful new insights and ideas which people are keen to apply. I feel the book is a great incentive to create vision - but it would be very helpful to also have a follow up book to give some detailed guidance. For example - micro finance is the  stepping off point, but how does someone go about setting up a a local micro finance bank?

        Pam

        Date: Saturday, 26 July, 2008, 9:51 AM

        Thanks Dave,
         
        Call either Dan or me, we are both in Nairobi and Surely it is great to have you home. I am going to Mbita tomorrow and will possibbly, hope, Dan to get one copy of the books, I will be going to Uganda in late September i can carry the ones for Uganda. Kims will be coming to Nairobi sometimes and will collect the two for Tanzania.
         
        I will call you immediately i am from Mbita.
        Sam

        2008/7/21 christopher macrae <chris.macrae@...>

        Actually if we get permission the idea is to publish 25 short videos on a dvd so that people can host debates around them with a laptop or any computer - not having to worry about download speed online

         

        If people who end up with a copy of a book can tell me then I can keep readers informed of any special news I get to hear http://smbaworld.com/id8.html

         

        I dont know if we ever got a popular video from kibera or other local attempts to videomake last year- if anyone thinks we did perhaps they could tell me

         

        One of the things that I have most understood is that Dr Yunus really loves children; I wish we could find some way to get a local community to start developing his ideas on social action diaries in chapter 11.

         

        chris

        --- On Mon, 21/7/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@...> wrote:

        From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@...>
        Subject: WWP - more books
        To: "Learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com" <learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com>, "christopher macrae" <chris.macrae@...>
        Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 9:08 PM


        Chris and everyone

        By now David Mutua should be safely on the plane flying home to Kenya.

        On Saturday we were able to meet Sofia Bustamante at the Brixton Hive, and we collected ten copies of the Mohammed Yunus book Creating a World Without Poverty, for use in East Africa. Thank you for making this possible Chris.

        I was also able to introduce David to Mamading and Tav.

        Tav and Sofia had just come back from making videos about the work of Mohammed Yunus. When the videos are edited they will be short and I hope they will help us to learn.  If they might be useful then we will need to find the best way for people to see them. I think  that they will be on youtube, but I wonder if people in cyber cafes can watch youtube ok. Video can take a long time to download.  A cyber cafe manager may not provide sound. Not everyone can get to a cyber cafe. There are various possible problems. We will need to rub minds once we know more about the videos and their relevance.

        Mamading told us that he has written a summary of chapter one of "Creating a World Without Poverty". I am hoping we will be able to share it through LearningFromEachOther.

        Pam




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      • christopher macrae
        Pamela - its an interesting question you raise which needs more research connecting with clusters of people wherever they become interested in Yunus MICRO up
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 8, 2008
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          Pamela - its an interesting question you raise which needs more research connecting with clusters of people wherever they become interested in Yunus MICRO up approach
           
          Here are a few ideas but  we absolutely need more detail on how to make the knowlhow flows better every way round
           
          For about 15 years now Grameen has been extremely open if students want to intern in dhaka or if representatives of a possible community bank want to dialogue with others. The idea was those that are really interested will come to Dhaka. Its since the Nobel prize that Dr Yunus has realised that even more people are interested than he ever imagined- so he's spending almost half of the year touring the world but he hasnt go a large team helping him with worldwide dialogues so he is asking what ideas do citznens everywhere have to connect
           
          Grameen Trust has helped about 130 partner organsations in over 35 countries but its web isnt that easy to find what you need - or at least I dont think so . You can compare its layout http://www.grameen-info.org/grameen/gtrust/ with a blog I am starting (which may or may not get better depending on whether people recommend how to make it useful http://grameentrust.blogspot.com )
           
          Right now our main work in London emanating from citizen projects of http://yunusforum.net  is to see if we can put 25 short youtube type videos together on one dvd and send them out to youth and other community clusters especially where people can show a video on a computer but online downloading isnt that easy. If Dr Yunus likes the videos we have colleacted around his book, we will be making 10000 copies and trying to work out what connection resources are needed . I have cc'd others who were in Dhaka interviewing Dr Yunus and his top 8 leadership team last month. I wish we had some more interfaces for africa up and down this exchange- I am not an expert myself in working out how tools and people hosts need to collaborate so that africa makes the most out of this. I very much wish we could get some of cida free univesrity peers joining in or any locally similar groups becuse they seem to me to be all about social business replication
           
          Back in Kenya -you do have 1 or 2 very good microcredit programs and I guess ultimately we need to get some connection between them and you. I am thinking definitely of Jamii Bora and probably of Equity Bank
           
          I hope that we will be able to learn from some specific cases and note thse up at eg http://yunusmentors.com and http://brixtonhive.com   - eg an american lady who has study healthcare but whose main african interest is a hospital in ghana is asking how can she maximise an intern interaction with grameen
           
          we also got an american uni cable tv feature collaboration cafe - for those with easy video access this is what he managed to convey  http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1456296524?bclid=1457684666&bctid=1554298306
           
          with so many // city and other local dialougues going n around this book as an open source paradigm/amo for sustainability
          it deeply saddens me that there is no simple way of having local groups discuss yunus book but then share their big questions with other local groups; i did think last year that I had invested in some software to give that a go but apparently the programmers thought of something smarter and I/we never got anything. I have decided never to put money in ict development again
           
          chris

          --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@...> wrote:
          From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@...>
          Subject: Re: WWP - more books
          To: chris.macrae@...
          Cc: learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, 8 August, 2008, 11:03 PM

          Chris you asked for news of the books. I'm not sure if you will have seen the email below from Samwel Kongere.

          Samwel, Ken Owino, Maria Agnese and I met in the chatroom  yesterday to discuss the ideas in the book. Our discussion is in the chatroom archives. The book is  stimulating deep thought, and providing useful new insights and ideas which people are keen to apply. I feel the book is a great incentive to create vision - but it would be very helpful to also have a follow up book to give some detailed guidance. For example - micro finance is the  stepping off point, but how does someone go about setting up a a local micro finance bank?

          Pam

          Date: Saturday, 26 July, 2008, 9:51 AM

          Thanks Dave,
           
          Call either Dan or me, we are both in Nairobi and Surely it is great to have you home. I am going to Mbita tomorrow and will possibbly, hope, Dan to get one copy of the books, I will be going to Uganda in late September i can carry the ones for Uganda. Kims will be coming to Nairobi sometimes and will collect the two for Tanzania.
           
          I will call you immediately i am from Mbita.
          Sam

          2008/7/21 christopher macrae <chris.macrae@...>
          Actually if we get permission the idea is to publish 25 short videos on a dvd so that people can host debates around them with a laptop or any computer - not having to worry about download speed online
           
          If people who end up with a copy of a book can tell me then I can keep readers informed of any special news I get to hear http://smbaworld.com/id8.html
           
          I dont know if we ever got a popular video from kibera or other local attempts to videomake last year- if anyone thinks we did perhaps they could tell me
           
          One of the things that I have most understood is that Dr Yunus really loves children; I wish we could find some way to get a local community to start developing his ideas on social action diaries in chapter 11.
           
          chris

          --- On Mon, 21/7/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@...> wrote:
          From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@...>
          Subject: WWP - more books
          To: "Learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com" <learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com>, "christopher macrae" <chris.macrae@...>
          Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 9:08 PM


          Chris and everyone

          By now David Mutua should be safely on the plane flying home to Kenya.

          On Saturday we were able to meet Sofia Bustamante at the Brixton Hive, and we collected ten copies of the Mohammed Yunus book Creating a World Without Poverty, for use in East Africa. Thank you for making this possible Chris.

          I was also able to introduce David to Mamading and Tav.

          Tav and Sofia had just come back from making videos about the work of Mohammed Yunus. When the videos are edited they will be short and I hope they will help us to learn.  If they might be useful then we will need to find the best way for people to see them. I think  that they will be on youtube, but I wonder if people in cyber cafes can watch youtube ok. Video can take a long time to download.  A cyber cafe manager may not provide sound. Not everyone can get to a cyber cafe. There are various possible problems. We will need to rub minds once we know more about the videos and their relevance.

          Mamading told us that he has written a summary of chapter one of "Creating a World Without Poverty". I am hoping we will be able to share it through LearningFromEachOther.

          Pam




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        • Samwel Kongere
          Chris and Pam, Thoughts from both of you, makes me explode my memories of microredit, in Rusinga Island, your help at one point was immeasurable to me in
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 9, 2008
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            Chris and Pam,
             
            Thoughts from both of you, makes me explode my memories of microredit, in Rusinga Island, your help at one point was immeasurable to me in particular; but you can't have  specific results to local groups immediately. Yes! the book is a break through in many ways, i am a student of the book, i had worked earlier in the community of Rusinga Island tirelessly! tirelessly! mobilizing the community (fishermen, farmers, individual entrepreneurs etc) in 2001 to 2002 to start a village bank (micro-credit) for the community. With motivated youths we realized enormous responses but! But When we finally handed over the whole management to the community leaders, they did the unacceptable approach, they gave loans which were not repaid, changed the Micro-credit scheme to a cooperative society (SACCO) through the help of the Cooperative Ministry and the local community were dismayed and could not hear of it again. Many withdrew from it, many lost interest because even the government could not even help them understand and i always cry cheated by some in authorities; i cannot do everything!.
             
            I had to change my interests in community development approach. We had to change; there is a mind set of thinking and belief which must be removed from the society. The people here think holding positions matters without prior ideas! The retired workers ( be it government or private sector) should be removed from community grass root development leadership and people will develop from their own thinking and there must a knowledge based approach which can only be instilled by the people themselves. Let the poor decide for themselves. The matter of corruption in Kenya starts from the 'know how' who were once employed and claim experience from their former jobs, the junior government workers are notorious (they even get payments from the service they give). How can  a community grow from non supportive ideas? the extension officers should be restored to enable the people develop.
             
            I am also very sure of some micro credit finance growing because they are being supported by the government in power and immediately that government goes; it is no more. This has made many people to start their own scattered projects which add no value to community development. Good; there is a new Equity Bank branch at Mbita which was started this year. They have employed some locals. I visited the Bank while in Mbita last week and saw how people are benefiting from the branch.
             
            But what is worrying most; is the loan repayment interest rate is higher in Kenya. The rate is 12% to 24% or so which many local people cannot afford. Accessibility of the loan is depending on where you come from and security. Unless there is a different approach to leave the people decide themselves, then they are not going to be adaptive to the risks behind non repayment. Women were harassed towards police cells many, i interviewed said: the amount given compared to the inflation rate cannot help them out of the poor conditions. The living standard is high, bringing families expensive, school fees and nothing is changing, the fish catch is minimal, the roads are bad (Imppassable) to allow easy trade and movement to other markets.
             
            Although i am traveling, I know the inroads which can make many people realize their potentiality. But Yunus book, exchange, and exposure can make a change of mind.
            Samwel

            christopher macrae <chris.macrae@...> wrote:
            Pamela - its an interesting question you raise which needs more research connecting with clusters of people wherever they become interested in Yunus MICRO up approach
             
            Here are a few ideas but  we absolutely need more detail on how to make the knowlhow flows better every way round
             
            For about 15 years now Grameen has been extremely open if students want to intern in dhaka or if representatives of a possible community bank want to dialogue with others. The idea was those that are really interested will come to Dhaka. Its since the Nobel prize that Dr Yunus has realised that even more people are interested than he ever imagined- so he's spending almost half of the year touring the world but he hasnt go a large team helping him with worldwide dialogues so he is asking what ideas do citznens everywhere have to connect
             
            Grameen Trust has helped about 130 partner organsations in over 35 countries but its web isnt that easy to find what you need - or at least I dont think so . You can compare its layout http://www.grameen- info.org/ grameen/gtrust/ with a blog I am starting (which may or may not get better depending on whether people recommend how to make it useful http://grameentrust .blogspot. com )
             
            Right now our main work in London emanating from citizen projects of http://yunusforum. net  is to see if we can put 25 short youtube type videos together on one dvd and send them out to youth and other community clusters especially where people can show a video on a computer but online downloading isnt that easy. If Dr Yunus likes the videos we have colleacted around his book, we will be making 10000 copies and trying to work out what connection resources are needed . I have cc'd others who were in Dhaka interviewing Dr Yunus and his top 8 leadership team last month. I wish we had some more interfaces for africa up and down this exchange- I am not an expert myself in working out how tools and people hosts need to collaborate so that africa makes the most out of this. I very much wish we could get some of cida free univesrity peers joining in or any locally similar groups becuse they seem to me to be all about social business replication
             
            Back in Kenya -you do have 1 or 2 very good microcredit programs and I guess ultimately we need to get some connection between them and you. I am thinking definitely of Jamii Bora and probably of Equity Bank
             
            I hope that we will be able to learn from some specific cases and note thse up at eg http://yunusmentors .com and http://brixtonhive. com   - eg an american lady who has study healthcare but whose main african interest is a hospital in ghana is asking how can she maximise an intern interaction with grameen
             
            we also got an american uni cable tv feature collaboration cafe - for those with easy video access this is what he managed to convey  http://link. brightcove. com/services/ player/bcpid1456 296524?bclid= 1457684666&bctid=1554298306
             
            with so many // city and other local dialougues going n around this book as an open source paradigm/amo for sustainability
            it deeply saddens me that there is no simple way of having local groups discuss yunus book but then share their big questions with other local groups; i did think last year that I had invested in some software to give that a go but apparently the programmers thought of something smarter and I/we never got anything. I have decided never to put money in ict development again
             
            chris

            --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com> wrote:
            From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com>
            Subject: Re: WWP - more books
            To: chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk
            Cc: learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com
            Date: Friday, 8 August, 2008, 11:03 PM

            Chris you asked for news of the books. I'm not sure if you will have seen the email below from Samwel Kongere.

            Samwel, Ken Owino, Maria Agnese and I met in the chatroom  yesterday to discuss the ideas in the book. Our discussion is in the chatroom archives. The book is  stimulating deep thought, and providing useful new insights and ideas which people are keen to apply. I feel the book is a great incentive to create vision - but it would be very helpful to also have a follow up book to give some detailed guidance. For example - micro finance is the  stepping off point, but how does someone go about setting up a a local micro finance bank?

            Pam

            Date: Saturday, 26 July, 2008, 9:51 AM

            Thanks Dave,
             
            Call either Dan or me, we are both in Nairobi and Surely it is great to have you home. I am going to Mbita tomorrow and will possibbly, hope, Dan to get one copy of the books, I will be going to Uganda in late September i can carry the ones for Uganda. Kims will be coming to Nairobi sometimes and will collect the two for Tanzania.
             
            I will call you immediately i am from Mbita.
            Sam

            2008/7/21 christopher macrae <chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk>
            Actually if we get permission the idea is to publish 25 short videos on a dvd so that people can host debates around them with a laptop or any computer - not having to worry about download speed online
             
            If people who end up with a copy of a book can tell me then I can keep readers informed of any special news I get to hear http://smbaworld. com/id8.html
             
            I dont know if we ever got a popular video from kibera or other local attempts to videomake last year- if anyone thinks we did perhaps they could tell me
             
            One of the things that I have most understood is that Dr Yunus really loves children; I wish we could find some way to get a local community to start developing his ideas on social action diaries in chapter 11.
             
            chris

            --- On Mon, 21/7/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com> wrote:
            From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com>
            Subject: WWP - more books
            To: "Learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com" <learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com>, "christopher macrae" <chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk>
            Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 9:08 PM


            Chris and everyone

            By now David Mutua should be safely on the plane flying home to Kenya.

            On Saturday we were able to meet Sofia Bustamante at the Brixton Hive, and we collected ten copies of the Mohammed Yunus book Creating a World Without Poverty, for use in East Africa. Thank you for making this possible Chris.

            I was also able to introduce David to Mamading and Tav.

            Tav and Sofia had just come back from making videos about the work of Mohammed Yunus. When the videos are edited they will be short and I hope they will help us to learn.  If they might be useful then we will need to find the best way for people to see them. I think  that they will be on youtube, but I wonder if people in cyber cafes can watch youtube ok. Video can take a long time to download.  A cyber cafe manager may not provide sound. Not everyone can get to a cyber cafe. There are various possible problems. We will need to rub minds once we know more about the videos and their relevance.

            Mamading told us that he has written a summary of chapter one of "Creating a World Without Poverty". I am hoping we will be able to share it through LearningFromEachOth er.

            Pam




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          • Benoit Couture
            Samwel,   Thank you for reporting that personal experience.  What draws my attention most is when you write: We had to change; there is a mind set of
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 9, 2008
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              Samwel,
               
              Thank you for reporting that personal experience.  What draws my attention most is when you write:
              "We had to change; there is a mind set of thinking and belief which must be removed from the society."
               
              That, to me is the real core of each and all's universal challenge that we all face everywhere on earth.  Here are some thoughts to help in regard to thinking and beleif and Faith:
               
              And then, you write:
               
              "The matter of corruption in Kenya starts from the 'know how' who were once employed and claim experience from their former jobs, the junior government workers are notorious (they even get payments from the service they give)."
               
              To me, this is when the time has come to call on someone like John Rogers from the Cyfranogi group of Minciu Sodas, who is a specialist of Community Currencies (CC).
               
              And so, why not take on all that Dr. Yunnus offers and adapt it all into a focal-local-flowing movement by joining it with CC?  Instead of a rigid system, there could energe an adaptable and renewing approach of the kind that says:
               
              "...we'll help you first and as you grow secure, you will join us and pay back the movement many folds by your active and maturing presence..."!?
               
              Also, when it comes to corruption, I have come to view that with more objectivity by using "corruptibility" instead of "corruption", so as to help me to love my enemy-neighbour as myself.  I describe this with the title:
               
              "From brown to green":
               
              Keep up the good fight Samwel! You are loved and supported by many whom you never hear from!  Your letters to Minciu Sodas are providing much needed substance of action.
              It is like when Pam writes to you in the last chat on Thursday:
               
              " Sam - you ae very unusual because you are intereted in ideas and interested in doing thngs as well"
               
              Later on you wrote
               
              "I am always thinking and doing at my own pace and I love this"
               
              And then, toward the end of the chat, the 2 of you went on and Pam re-enforced her observation that we all share of you, with:
               
              Samwel: Good Pam, People might loose interest at some levels but we to make them going

              Pam: yes - different people have interets at different levels :: It is what I was saying to you earlier - you are interested in thinking and in doing : so you can work with thinkers and with "doers' - with the practitioners - the community activists
               
              Thank you both, Pam: and Samwel along with KenOwino and Mariaagnese for keeping up with the commitment to meet-for-chatting on the first Thusday of every month at:
               
              You provide us with much deepening of the community roots of wisdom and action!
               
              ...may all blessings be with us all...
              Benoit

              --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...> wrote:
              From: Samwel Kongere <jambita1@...>
              Subject: Re: [learningfromeachother] Re: WWP - more books
              To: learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela McLean" <pam54321@...>, "Mendenyo Men-denyo" <mendenyo@yahoogroups.com>, "Global Villages" <globalvillages@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com, "sofia@..." <sofia@...>, "tav@..." <tav@...>, "Mark Chaplin" <caplinski@...>, mostofa12@...
              Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:47 AM

              Chris and Pam,
               
              Thoughts from both of you, makes me explode my memories of microredit, in Rusinga Island, your help at one point was immeasurable to me in particular; but you can't have  specific results to local groups immediately. Yes! the book is a break through in many ways, i am a student of the book, i had worked earlier in the community of Rusinga Island tirelessly! tirelessly! mobilizing the community (fishermen, farmers, individual entrepreneurs etc) in 2001 to 2002 to start a village bank (micro-credit) for the community. With motivated youths we realized enormous responses but! But When we finally handed over the whole management to the community leaders, they did the unacceptable approach, they gave loans which were not repaid, changed the Micro-credit scheme to a cooperative society (SACCO) through the help of the Cooperative Ministry and the local community were dismayed and could not hear of it again. Many withdrew from it, many lost interest because even the government could not even help them understand and i always cry cheated by some in authorities; i cannot do everything!.
               
              I had to change my interests in community development approach. We had to change; there is a mind set of thinking and belief which must be removed from the society. The people here think holding positions matters without prior ideas! The retired workers ( be it government or private sector) should be removed from community grass root development leadership and people will develop from their own thinking and there must a knowledge based approach which can only be instilled by the people themselves. Let the poor decide for themselves. The matter of corruption in Kenya starts from the 'know how' who were once employed and claim experience from their former jobs, the junior government workers are notorious (they even get payments from the service they give). How can  a community grow from non supportive ideas? the extension officers should be restored to enable the people develop.
               
              I am also very sure of some micro credit finance growing because they are being supported by the government in power and immediately that government goes; it is no more. This has made many people to start their own scattered projects which add no value to community development. Good; there is a new Equity Bank branch at Mbita which was started this year. They have employed some locals. I visited the Bank while in Mbita last week and saw how people are benefiting from the branch.
               
              But what is worrying most; is the loan repayment interest rate is higher in Kenya. The rate is 12% to 24% or so which many local people cannot afford. Accessibility of the loan is depending on where you come from and security. Unless there is a different approach to leave the people decide themselves, then they are not going to be adaptive to the risks behind non repayment. Women were harassed towards police cells many, i interviewed said: the amount given compared to the inflation rate cannot help them out of the poor conditions. The living standard is high, bringing families expensive, school fees and nothing is changing, the fish catch is minimal, the roads are bad (Imppassable) to allow easy trade and movement to other markets.
               
              Although i am traveling, I know the inroads which can make many people realize their potentiality. But Yunus book, exchange, and exposure can make a change of mind.
              Samwel

              christopher macrae <chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
              Pamela - its an interesting question you raise which needs more research connecting with clusters of people wherever they become interested in Yunus MICRO up approach
               
              Here are a few ideas but  we absolutely need more detail on how to make the knowlhow flows better every way round
               
              For about 15 years now Grameen has been extremely open if students want to intern in dhaka or if representatives of a possible community bank want to dialogue with others. The idea was those that are really interested will come to Dhaka. Its since the Nobel prize that Dr Yunus has realised that even more people are interested than he ever imagined- so he's spending almost half of the year touring the world but he hasnt go a large team helping him with worldwide dialogues so he is asking what ideas do citznens everywhere have to connect
               
              Grameen Trust has helped about 130 partner organsations in over 35 countries but its web isnt that easy to find what you need - or at least I dont think so . You can compare its layout http://www.grameen- info.org/ grameen/gtrust/ with a blog I am starting (which may or may not get better depending on whether people recommend how to make it useful http://grameentrust .blogspot. com )
               
              Right now our main work in London emanating from citizen projects of http://yunusforum. net  is to see if we can put 25 short youtube type videos together on one dvd and send them out to youth and other community clusters especially where people can show a video on a computer but online downloading isnt that easy. If Dr Yunus likes the videos we have colleacted around his book, we will be making 10000 copies and trying to work out what connection resources are needed . I have cc'd others who were in Dhaka interviewing Dr Yunus and his top 8 leadership team last month. I wish we had some more interfaces for africa up and down this exchange- I am not an expert myself in working out how tools and people hosts need to collaborate so that africa makes the most out of this. I very much wish we could get some of cida free univesrity peers joining in or any locally similar groups becuse they seem to me to be all about social business replication
               
              Back in Kenya -you do have 1 or 2 very good microcredit programs and I guess ultimately we need to get some connection between them and you. I am thinking definitely of Jamii Bora and probably of Equity Bank
               
              I hope that we will be able to learn from some specific cases and note thse up at eg http://yunusmentors .com and http://brixtonhive. com   - eg an american lady who has study healthcare but whose main african interest is a hospital in ghana is asking how can she maximise an intern interaction with grameen
               
              we also got an american uni cable tv feature collaboration cafe - for those with easy video access this is what he managed to convey  http://link. brightcove. com/services/ player/bcpid1456 296524?bclid= 1457684666&bctid=1554298306
               
              with so many // city and other local dialougues going n around this book as an open source paradigm/amo for sustainability
              it deeply saddens me that there is no simple way of having local groups discuss yunus book but then share their big questions with other local groups; i did think last year that I had invested in some software to give that a go but apparently the programmers thought of something smarter and I/we never got anything. I have decided never to put money in ict development again
               
              chris

              --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com> wrote:
              From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com>
              Subject: Re: WWP - more books
              To: chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk
              Cc: learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com
              Date: Friday, 8 August, 2008, 11:03 PM

              Chris you asked for news of the books. I'm not sure if you will have seen the email below from Samwel Kongere.

              Samwel, Ken Owino, Maria Agnese and I met in the chatroom  yesterday to discuss the ideas in the book. Our discussion is in the chatroom archives. The book is  stimulating deep thought, and providing useful new insights and ideas which people are keen to apply. I feel the book is a great incentive to create vision - but it would be very helpful to also have a follow up book to give some detailed guidance. For example - micro finance is the  stepping off point, but how does someone go about setting up a a local micro finance bank?

              Pam

              Date: Saturday, 26 July, 2008, 9:51 AM

              Thanks Dave,
               
              Call either Dan or me, we are both in Nairobi and Surely it is great to have you home. I am going to Mbita tomorrow and will possibbly, hope, Dan to get one copy of the books, I will be going to Uganda in late September i can carry the ones for Uganda. Kims will be coming to Nairobi sometimes and will collect the two for Tanzania.
               
              I will call you immediately i am from Mbita.
              Sam

              2008/7/21 christopher macrae <chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk>
              Actually if we get permission the idea is to publish 25 short videos on a dvd so that people can host debates around them with a laptop or any computer - not having to worry about download speed online
               
              If people who end up with a copy of a book can tell me then I can keep readers informed of any special news I get to hear http://smbaworld. com/id8.html
               
              I dont know if we ever got a popular video from kibera or other local attempts to videomake last year- if anyone thinks we did perhaps they could tell me
               
              One of the things that I have most understood is that Dr Yunus really loves children; I wish we could find some way to get a local community to start developing his ideas on social action diaries in chapter 11.
               
              chris

              --- On Mon, 21/7/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com> wrote:
              From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com>
              Subject: WWP - more books
              To: "Learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com" <learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com>, "christopher macrae" <chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk>
              Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 9:08 PM


              Chris and everyone

              By now David Mutua should be safely on the plane flying home to Kenya.

              On Saturday we were able to meet Sofia Bustamante at the Brixton Hive, and we collected ten copies of the Mohammed Yunus book Creating a World Without Poverty, for use in East Africa. Thank you for making this possible Chris.

              I was also able to introduce David to Mamading and Tav.

              Tav and Sofia had just come back from making videos about the work of Mohammed Yunus. When the videos are edited they will be short and I hope they will help us to learn.  If they might be useful then we will need to find the best way for people to see them. I think  that they will be on youtube, but I wonder if people in cyber cafes can watch youtube ok. Video can take a long time to download.  A cyber cafe manager may not provide sound. Not everyone can get to a cyber cafe. There are various possible problems. We will need to rub minds once we know more about the videos and their relevance.

              Mamading told us that he has written a summary of chapter one of "Creating a World Without Poverty". I am hoping we will be able to share it through LearningFromEachOth er.

              Pam




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            • kayiwa fred
              Hello, Friends I would also love to include my responce about the Book I have a copy but honestly i gave it to a friend who is aprimary teacher to read through
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 9, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello, Friends I would also love to include my responce about the Book
                I have a copy but honestly i gave it to a friend who is aprimary teacher to read through because i was up and down making my reaserch and preapring to ensure i start my second semster at the University
                so far what i had covered in reading was inspiring.
                I need to see how Mr. Omoit has learnt from the book and we give to another one
                as i wait to pick the 2 copies from Mutua also

                --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@...> wrote:
                From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@...>
                Subject: [learningfromeachother] Re: WWP - more books
                To: chris.macrae@...
                Cc: learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 3:03 PM

                Chris you asked for news of the books. I'm not sure if you will have seen the email below from Samwel Kongere.

                Samwel, Ken Owino, Maria Agnese and I met in the chatroom  yesterday to discuss the ideas in the book. Our discussion is in the chatroom archives. The book is  stimulating deep thought, and providing useful new insights and ideas which people are keen to apply. I feel the book is a great incentive to create vision - but it would be very helpful to also have a follow up book to give some detailed guidance. For example - micro finance is the  stepping off point, but how does someone go about setting up a a local micro finance bank?

                Pam

                Date: Saturday, 26 July, 2008, 9:51 AM

                Thanks Dave,
                 
                Call either Dan or me, we are both in Nairobi and Surely it is great to have you home. I am going to Mbita tomorrow and will possibbly, hope, Dan to get one copy of the books, I will be going to Uganda in late September i can carry the ones for Uganda. Kims will be coming to Nairobi sometimes and will collect the two for Tanzania.
                 
                I will call you immediately i am from Mbita.
                Sam

                2008/7/21 christopher macrae <chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk>
                Actually if we get permission the idea is to publish 25 short videos on a dvd so that people can host debates around them with a laptop or any computer - not having to worry about download speed online
                 
                If people who end up with a copy of a book can tell me then I can keep readers informed of any special news I get to hear http://smbaworld. com/id8.html
                 
                I dont know if we ever got a popular video from kibera or other local attempts to videomake last year- if anyone thinks we did perhaps they could tell me
                 
                One of the things that I have most understood is that Dr Yunus really loves children; I wish we could find some way to get a local community to start developing his ideas on social action diaries in chapter 11.
                 
                chris

                --- On Mon, 21/7/08, Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com> wrote:
                From: Pamela McLean <pam54321@googlemail .com>
                Subject: WWP - more books
                To: "Learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com" <learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com>, "christopher macrae" <chris.macrae@ yahoo.co. uk>
                Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 9:08 PM


                Chris and everyone

                By now David Mutua should be safely on the plane flying home to Kenya.

                On Saturday we were able to meet Sofia Bustamante at the Brixton Hive, and we collected ten copies of the Mohammed Yunus book Creating a World Without Poverty, for use in East Africa. Thank you for making this possible Chris.

                I was also able to introduce David to Mamading and Tav.

                Tav and Sofia had just come back from making videos about the work of Mohammed Yunus. When the videos are edited they will be short and I hope they will help us to learn.  If they might be useful then we will need to find the best way for people to see them. I think  that they will be on youtube, but I wonder if people in cyber cafes can watch youtube ok. Video can take a long time to download.  A cyber cafe manager may not provide sound. Not everyone can get to a cyber cafe. There are various possible problems. We will need to rub minds once we know more about the videos and their relevance.

                Mamading told us that he has written a summary of chapter one of "Creating a World Without Poverty". I am hoping we will be able to share it through LearningFromEachOth er.

                Pam




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