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declension of proper names

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  • mpettom
    Hello again! I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal names Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern they have
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
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      Hello again!
      I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal names
      Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern they
      have to be declined?
      And the same questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin - am
      I right?) What type is it's declension?

      Thank you in advance!
      Mpettom
    • gordion_cz
      Hello, Jirka, Standa = pattern pr^edseda Dagmara = z^ena Dagmar = use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form Dagmar (for singular; for plural
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
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        Hello,

        Jirka, Standa => pattern pr^edseda
        Dagmara => z^ena
        Dagmar => use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form
        "Dagmar" (for singular; for plural it's better to use pattern z^ena)

        IvoD

        --- In learning_czech@yahoogroups.com, "mpettom" <m_tomow@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello again!
        > I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal
        names
        > Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern
        they
        > have to be declined?
        > And the same questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin
        - am
        > I right?) What type is it's declension?
        >
        > Thank you in advance!
        > Mpettom
        >
      • Petr Hrubis
        That s right. As you may know, the patter pr^edseda is a transition between z^ena and pa n (masculine animate, hard) Nom. sg.: pr^edsed-a ~
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
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          That's right. As you may know, the patter "pr^edseda" is a transition between "z^ena" and "pa'n" (masculine animate, hard)

          Nom. sg.: pr^edsed-a ~ z^en-a
          Voc. sg.: pr^edsed-o ~ z^en-o
          Acc. sg.: pr^edsed-u ~ z^en-u
          Ins. sg.: pr^edsed-ou ~ z^en-ou
          Gen. sg.: pr^edsed-y ~ z^en-y
          Dat. sg.: pr^edsed-ovi ~ z^en-e^ ~ pa'n-ovi
          Loc. sg.: pr^edsed-ovi ~ z^en-e^ ~ pa'n-ovi


          Nom. pl.: pr^edsed-ove' ~ z^en-y ~ pa'n-ove'
          Voc. pl.: pr^edsed-ove' ~ z^en-y ~ pa'n-ove'
          Acc. pl.: pr^edsed-y ~ z^en-y ~ pa'n-y
          Ins. pl.: pr^edsed-y ~ z^en-ami ~ pa'n-y
          Gen. pl.: pr^edsed-u° ~ z^en-0 ~ pa'n-u°
          Dat. pl.: pr^edsed-u°m ~ z^en-a'm ~ pa'n-u°m
          Loc. pl.: pr^edsed-ech ~ z^en-a'ch ~ pa'n-ech

          Note that in Bohemian dialects, you could hear pr^edsedama. The ending -ama is one of the typical dialectal features of the so-called Common Czech spoken in Bohemia (whereas in Moravia, they are rather rare).

          Also, as you may know, "Jirka" and "Standa" are the familiar or diminutive forms of <Jir^i'> or <Stanislav>.

          As Ivo correctly pointed out, the feminine name Dagmar is usually constant in sg., whereas in plural, it is better to use the pattern "z^ena" to avoid homonymy, and thus ambiguity. Dagmara is clearly the pattern "z^ena" (as the a-ending suggests), both in sg. and pl. It might be an interesting piece of information that "Dagmar" and "Dagmara" usually have the diminutive/familiar form "Da's^a", or - less typically - "Da'da" or "Dada" (the latter being typical for some Northern Moravian dialects").

          Best,

          Petr


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: gordion_cz <cb176965@...>
          To: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 1 September, 2006 4:26:09 PM
          Subject: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names


          Hello,

          Jirka, Standa => pattern pr^edseda
          Dagmara => z^ena
          Dagmar => use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form
          "Dagmar" (for singular; for plural it's better to use pattern z^ena)

          IvoD

          --- In learning_czech@yahoogroups.com, "mpettom" <m_tomow@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello again!
          > I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal
          names
          > Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern
          they
          > have to be declined?
          > And the same questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin
          - am
          > I right?) What type is it's declension?
          >
          > Thank you in advance!
          > Mpettom
          >







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        • mpettom <<
          Thank you Ivo and Petr for the prompt replies and for the interesting additional information you gave. Greetings Mpettom ... vbox7.com - Çàáàâíè
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 2, 2006
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            Thank you Ivo and Petr for the prompt replies and for the interesting additional information you gave.
            Greetings
            Mpettom



            >-------- Оригинално писмо --------
            >От: Petr Hrubis <hrubisp@...>
            >Относно: Re: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
            >До: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
            >Изпратено на: Петък, 2006, Септември 1 20:36:55 EEST
            >----------------------------------
            >
            >That's right. As you may know, the patter "pr^edseda" is a transition between "z^ena" and "pa'n" (masculine animate, hard)
            >
            >Nom. sg.: pr^edsed-a ~ z^en-a
            >Voc. sg.: pr^edsed-o ~ z^en-o
            >Acc. sg.: pr^edsed-u ~ z^en-u
            >Ins. sg.: pr^edsed-ou ~ z^en-ou
            >Gen. sg.: pr^edsed-y ~ z^en-y
            >Dat. sg.: pr^edsed-ovi ~ z^en-e^ ~ pa'n-ovi
            >Loc. sg.: pr^edsed-ovi ~ z^en-e^ ~ pa'n-ovi
            >
            >
            >Nom. pl.: pr^edsed-ove' ~ z^en-y ~ pa'n-ove'
            >Voc. pl.: pr^edsed-ove' ~ z^en-y ~ pa'n-ove'
            >Acc. pl.: pr^edsed-y ~ z^en-y ~ pa'n-y
            >Ins. pl.: pr^edsed-y ~ z^en-ami ~ pa'n-y
            >Gen. pl.: pr^edsed-u° ~ z^en-0 ~ pa'n-u°
            >Dat. pl.: pr^edsed-u°m ~ z^en-a'm ~ pa'n-u°m
            >Loc. pl.: pr^edsed-ech ~ z^en-a'ch ~ pa'n-ech
            >
            >Note that in Bohemian dialects, you could hear pr^edsedama. The ending -ama is one of the typical dialectal features of the so-called Common Czech spoken in Bohemia (whereas in Moravia, they are rather rare).
            >
            >Also, as you may know, "Jirka" and "Standa" are the familiar or diminutive forms of <Jir^i'> or <Stanislav>.
            >
            >As Ivo correctly pointed out, the feminine name Dagmar is usually constant in sg., whereas in plural, it is better to use the pattern "z^ena" to avoid homonymy, and thus ambiguity. Dagmara is clearly the pattern "z^ena" (as the a-ending suggests), both in sg. and pl. It might be an interesting piece of information that "Dagmar" and "Dagmara" usually have the diminutive/familiar form "Da's^a", or - less typically - "Da'da" or "Dada" (the latter being typical for some Northern Moravian dialects").
            >
            >Best,
            >
            >Petr
            >
            >
            >----- Original Message ----
            >From: gordion_cz <cb176965@...>
            >To: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
            >Sent: Friday, 1 September, 2006 4:26:09 PM
            >Subject: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
            >
            >
            >Hello,
            >
            >Jirka, Standa => pattern pr^edseda
            >Dagmara => z^ena
            >Dagmar => use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form
            >"Dagmar" (for singular; for plural it's better to use pattern z^ena)
            >
            >IvoD
            >
            >--- In learning_czech@yahoogroups.com, "mpettom" <m_tomow@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hello again!
            >> I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal
            >names
            >> Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern
            >they
            >> have to be declined?
            >> And the same questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin
            >- am
            >> I right?) What type is it's declension?
            >>
            >> Thank you in advance!
            >> Mpettom
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

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          • Розмари Берберян
            Dagmar se nesklonuji! ... vbox7.com - Çàáàâíè âèäåî êëèïîâå! Dagmar se nesklonuji! -------- Îðèãèíàëíî ïèñìî -------- Îò:
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 4, 2006
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              Dagmar se nesklonuji!



              >-------- Оригинално писмо --------
              >От: "gordion_cz"
              >Относно: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
              >До: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
              >Изпратено на: Петък, 2006, Септември 1 17:26:09 EEST
              >----------------------------------
              >
              >Hello,
              >
              >Jirka, Standa => pattern pr^edseda
              >Dagmara => z^ena
              >Dagmar => use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form
              >"Dagmar" (for singular; for plural it's better to use pattern z^ena)
              >
              >IvoD
              >
              >--- In learning_czech@yahoogroups.com, "mpettom" wrote:
              >>
              >> Hello again!
              >> I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal
              >names
              >> Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern
              >they
              >> have to be declined?
              >> And the same questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin
              >- am
              >> I right?) What type is it's declension?
              >>
              >> Thank you in advance!
              >> Mpettom
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

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            • Petr Hrubis
              You probably wanted to write nesklon^uje , You re right, of course, but it is necessary to say, what has already been said, i.e. that this name has two
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 5, 2006
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                You probably wanted to write "nesklon^uje", You're right, of course, but it is necessary to say, what has already been said, i.e. that this name has two variants in Czech - Dagmar and Dagmara, and they're both confused by native speakers of Czech themselves (I being no exception).

                Hence, Dagmar is indeclinable, whereas Dagmara is z^ena-like. Stop. :-)

                Best,

                P.

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Розмари Берберян <rosemary2001@...>
                To: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, 4 September, 2006 12:58:35 PM
                Subject: Re: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names

                Dagmar se nesklonuji!



                >-------- Оригинално писмо --------
                >От: "gordion_cz"
                >Относно: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
                >До: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                >Изпратено на: Петък, 2006, Септември 1 17:26:09 EEST
                >----------------------------------
                >
                >Hello,
                >
                >Jirka, Standa => pattern pr^edseda
                >Dagmara => z^ena
                >Dagmar => use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form
                >"Dagmar" (for singular; for plural it's better to use pattern z^ena)
                >
                >IvoD
                >
                >--- In learning_czech@yahoogroups.com, "mpettom" wrote:
                >>
                >> Hello again!
                >> I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal
                >names
                >> Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern
                >they
                >> have to be declined?
                >> And the same
                questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin
                >- am
                >> I right?) What type is it's declension?
                >>
                >> Thank you in advance!
                >> Mpettom
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

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              • Розмари Берберян
                Yes, you are right it is hard for me to define the declesion of certain names and in this case, too...I didn t paid an attention of the variant of woman s
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 6, 2006
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                  Yes, you are right it is hard for me to define the declesion of certain names and in this case, too...I didn't paid an attention of the variant of woman's name-Dagmara

                  >-------- Оригинално писмо --------
                  >От: Petr Hrubis
                  >Относно: Re: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
                  >До: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                  >Изпратено на: Сряда, 2006, Септември 6 03:04:12 EEST
                  >----------------------------------
                  >
                  >You probably wanted to write "nesklon^uje", You're right, of course, but it is necessary to say, what has already been said, i.e. that this name has two variants in Czech - Dagmar and Dagmara, and they're both confused by native speakers of Czech themselves (I being no exception).
                  >
                  >Hence, Dagmar is indeclinable, whereas Dagmara is z^ena-like. Stop. :-)
                  >
                  >Best,
                  >
                  >P.
                  >
                  >----- Original Message ----
                  >From: Розмари Берберян
                  >To: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                  >Sent: Monday, 4 September, 2006 12:58:35 PM
                  >Subject: Re: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
                  >
                  > Dagmar se nesklonuji!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>-------- Оригинално писмо --------
                  >>От: "gordion_cz"
                  >>Относно: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
                  >>До: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                  >>Изпратено на: Петък, 2006, Септември 1 17:26:09 EEST
                  >>----------------------------------
                  >>
                  >>Hello,
                  >>
                  >>Jirka, Standa => pattern pr^edseda
                  >>Dagmara => z^ena
                  >>Dagmar => use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form
                  >>"Dagmar" (for singular; for plural it's better to use pattern z^ena)
                  >>
                  >>IvoD
                  >>
                  >>--- In learning_czech@yahoogroups.com, "mpettom" wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> Hello again!
                  >>> I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal
                  >>names
                  >>> Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern
                  >>they
                  >>> have to be declined?
                  >>> And the same questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin
                  >>- am
                  >>> I right?) What type is it's declension?
                  >>>
                  >>> Thank you in advance!
                  >>> Mpettom
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
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                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

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                • Petr Hrubis
                  Never mind. We often learn much more by mistakes than by other means :-) Petr ... From: Розмари Берберян To:
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 7, 2006
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                    Never mind. We often learn much more by mistakes than by other means :-) Petr

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Розмари Берберян <rosemary2001@...>
                    To: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, 6 September, 2006 12:29:47 PM
                    Subject: Re: Re: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names

                    Yes, you are right it is hard for me to define the declesion of certain names and in this case, too...I didn't paid an attention of the variant of woman's name-Dagmara

                    >-------- Оригинално писмо --------
                    >От: Petr Hrubis
                    >Относно: Re: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
                    >До: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                    >Изпратено на: Сряда, 2006, Септември 6 03:04:12 EEST
                    >----------------------------------
                    >
                    >You probably wanted to write "nesklon^uje", You're right, of course, but it is necessary to say, what has already been said, i.e. that this name has two variants in Czech - Dagmar and Dagmara, and they're both confused by native speakers of Czech themselves (I being no exception).
                    >
                    >Hence, Dagmar is indeclinable, whereas Dagmara is z^ena-like. Stop. :-)
                    >
                    >Best,
                    >
                    >P.
                    >
                    >----- Original Message ----
                    >From:
                    Розмари Берберян
                    >To: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                    >Sent: Monday, 4 September, 2006 12:58:35 PM
                    >Subject: Re: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
                    >
                    > Dagmar se nesklonuji!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>-------- Оригинално писмо --------
                    >>От: "gordion_cz"
                    >>Относно: [Learning Czech] Re: declension of proper names
                    >>До: learning_czech@yahoogroups.com
                    >>Изпратено на: Петък, 2006, Септември 1 17:26:09 EEST
                    >>----------------------------------
                    >>
                    >>Hello,
                    >>
                    >>Jirka, Standa => pattern pr^edseda
                    >>Dagmara => z^ena
                    >>Dagmar => use the same pattern z^ena OR use the constant form
                    >>"Dagmar" (for singular; for plural it's better to use pattern z^ena)
                    >>
                    >>IvoD
                    >>
                    >>--- In learning_czech@yahoogroups.com, "mpettom"
                    wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>> Hello again!
                    >>> I have now a questions about declension of the proper personal
                    >>names
                    >>> Jirka and Standa. Are they masculine and according to what pattern
                    >>they
                    >>> have to be declined?
                    >>> And the same questions about the name Dagmar (I think it's feminin
                    >>- am
                    >>> I right?) What type is it's declension?
                    >>>
                    >>> Thank you in advance!
                    >>> Mpettom
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
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                    > To unsubscribe from
                    this group, send an email to:
                    > learning_czech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

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