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Re: [largescaleTrolley] G Scale fine scale

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  • jeffwh1@juno.com
    John I was thinking of maybe code 148 Anyone know how high that is in G Scale? Jeff Horn ________________________________________________________________ GET
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 31, 2002
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      John
      I was thinking of maybe code 148
      Anyone know how high that is in G Scale?
      Jeff Horn
      ________________________________________________________________
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    • TrolleyJWT@aol.com
      Jeff: Code 125 is 3 inches......148......3 1/4 to 3 1/2.......I don t know the scale per 3 foot weight but I could find out if you need to know........JOHN
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 1, 2002
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        Jeff:
        Code 125 is 3 inches......148......3 1/4 to 3 1/2.......I don't know the scale per 3 foot weight but I could find out if you need to know........JOHN
      • John Pilling
        Jeff, The code of the rail is the height in thousands of an inch, in this case, .008 more than 9/64 . Regards, John Pilling
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 1, 2002
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          Jeff,
          The code of the rail is the height in thousands of an inch, in this case,
          .008 more than 9/64".
          Regards,
          John Pilling

          jeffwh1@... wrote:

          > John
          > I was thinking of maybe code 148
          > Anyone know how high that is in G Scale?
          > Jeff Horn
          > ________________________________________________________________
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        • Charley Lix
          Jeff ,Fellows ... G is not A scale ..really .. sorry for being such a snob ..a rail snob ..I have been called worse when it comes to rail sizes ... G seems
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 1, 2002
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            Jeff ,Fellows


            >I was thinking of maybe code 148
            >Anyone know how high that is in G Scale?


            "G" is not A scale ..really .. sorry for being such a snob ..a rail snob ..I
            have been called worse when it comes to rail sizes ... "G" seems to denote
            the catch all of scales used in the "G"arden ..

            1:20.3 ..is 49...thousandths per scale inch ...divide rail height ..in
            thousanths ...by scale inches ..

            7/8ths scale {1:13.7} .. has 73 thous in a scale inch ..divide rail height
            by scale inches ..


            I have a copy of A.C.S.E. rail standards ..height relating to weight ...
            trolley rail is heavier than Narrow gauge rails ..which I am used to ...we
            are looking for ... say 65# rail or so ...

            50 pound is 3 7/8ths inches high ..
            65# {pound} is 4 7/16ths high ..
            75# is 4 13/16ths high ...
            85# 5 3/16ths etc ...

            I just got in some code 332 steel rail for my garden line .. to be 7/8ths
            scale standard gauge ... so we work with 73 thous per inch ... divide 332 by
            73 .. we get ... 4.54 inches high in scale ... that relates to 60 pound rail
            at 4 1/4 inches high ...and 65 pound at 4 7/16ths inches high ... closer to
            65 pound rail ....which suits fine for a light trolley line ..

            Now code 250 .. for you guys doing 1:20.3 scale ..which makes gauge one
            ..three foot gauge... ? wasn't mount Lowe in California a NG line ? ..{ just
            saw some video of that line last night ..neat stuff ..} ...

            Code 250 / 49 thous / inch 5.1 inches high ..which relates to 80 # rail spot
            on .

            Hope this puts it all into perspective ...

            Have Fun ..... Charley
          • Bill Bolton
            ... Really.. it is! Its 1:22.5, despite the abuse given to that by suppliers who apply it to a variety of scales from 1:29 upwards. Cheers, Bill Bill Bolton
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 1, 2002
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              On Fri, 01 Feb 2002 12:54:35 -0800, Charley wrote:

              > "G" is not A scale ..really

              Really.. it is! Its 1:22.5, despite the abuse given to that by
              suppliers who apply it to a variety of scales from 1:29 upwards.

              Cheers,

              Bill


              Bill Bolton
              Sydney, Australia
            • Guckes, Albert
              Actually I beleive that the G is from LGB, not from Garden. I also think that denotes 1:22.5. Charley, you are certainly not a snob, it is confusing, but I
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 1, 2002
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                Actually I beleive that the "G" is from LGB, not from "Garden." I also think that denotes 1:22.5. Charley, you are certainly not a snob, it is confusing, but I think HO probably was confusing when it was established, with 3.5 mm representing 1 foot. Also wasn't British HO scale 4mm to the foot, or was that OO scale?
                 
                Al
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Charley Lix [mailto:ditch@...]
                Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:55 PM
                To: largescaleTrolley@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [largescaleTrolley] G Scale fine scale

                Jeff ,Fellows


                >I was thinking of maybe code 148
                >Anyone know how high that is in G Scale?


                "G" is not A scale ..really .. sorry for being such a snob ..a rail snob ..I
                have been called worse when it comes to rail sizes ... "G" seems to denote
                the catch all of scales used in the "G"arden ..

                1:20.3 ..is 49...thousandths per scale inch ...divide rail height ..in
                thousanths ...by scale inches ..

                7/8ths scale {1:13.7} .. has 73 thous in a scale inch ..divide rail height
                by scale inches ..


                I have a copy of A.C.S.E. rail standards ..height relating to weight ...
                trolley rail is heavier than Narrow gauge rails ..which I am used to ...we
                are looking for ... say 65# rail or so ...

                50 pound  is 3 7/8ths inches high ..
                65# {pound} is 4 7/16ths high ..
                75# is 4 13/16ths high ...
                85# 5 3/16ths etc ...

                I just got in some code 332 steel rail for my garden line .. to be 7/8ths
                scale standard gauge ... so we work with 73 thous per inch ... divide 332 by
                73 .. we get ... 4.54 inches high in scale ... that relates to 60 pound rail
                at 4 1/4 inches high ...and 65 pound at 4 7/16ths inches high ... closer to
                65 pound rail ....which suits fine for a light trolley line ..

                Now code 250 .. for you guys doing 1:20.3 scale ..which makes gauge one
                ..three foot gauge... ? wasn't mount Lowe in California a NG line ? ..{ just
                saw some video of that line last night ..neat stuff ..} ...

                Code 250 / 49 thous / inch 5.1 inches high ..which relates to 80 # rail spot
                on .

                Hope this puts it all into perspective ...

                Have Fun ..... Charley



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • TrolleyJWT@aol.com
                Jeff Horn; Yes to be accurate G scale means different things to different model builders.....Everything from 1/29 to 1/13..7...What I was refering to, and
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 1, 2002
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                  Jeff Horn;
                  Yes to be accurate "G" scale means different things to different model builders.....Everything from 1/29 to 1/13..7...What I was refering to, and what I build in is 1/2 inch to the foot......so my answers to you were predicated on 1/2 inch equalling one foot....you can adjust your scale rail size up or down from that......As to code size as it relates to rail height......it has been explained ......As far as whether or not "G" is a scale I leave that to someone else to debate......If I created confusion with my off hand answer I apologize.......JOHN









                • Charley Lix
                  Albert , Fellows .. From: Guckes, Albert Charley, you are certainly not a snob, Thanks for the confidence .possibly misplace
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 1, 2002
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                    Albert , Fellows ..

                    From: "Guckes, Albert" <AD_Guckes@...>


                    Charley, you are certainly not a snob,


                    Thanks for the confidence .possibly misplace ... ;} ....sometimes I feel
                    that I go overboard about this stuff ...rail size being my most pet peeve ..
                    favorite of several .. etc ..




                    >Actually I beleive that the "G" is from LGB, not from "Garden." I also think
                    >that denotes 1:22.5.

                    Yeah , Mr . Bolton clarified that as well ..I was condsidering the garden
                    variety ...{couldn't help it } ... garden railroaders who run generic
                    colourado equipment with 1;29th scale steel AAR cars .It makes me cringe
                    ..but some care nought ..that is their right ..




                    >it is confusing but I think HO probably was confusing when it was
                    established, with 3.5 mm
                    >representing 1 foot. Also wasn't British HO scale 4mm to the foot, or was
                    >that OO scale?

                    Oh merci ..we open a can of worms ..large squishy ones ...yes ,it is quite
                    the disaster ..I sort of got mad when the NMRA ... got into it and started
                    labelling scales .. "F" .."G" .. whot else .. oh ..the main.. one which rubs
                    .. "M" for 7/8ths which I am involved in ..labelled thus for no other reason
                    than some are / were modelling "Maine" two footers in this scale ..It serves
                    well if everybody can learn the letter designations ..I can ..I suppose If I
                    put my mind into it ..but the clarity of a ratio stated { say 1:20.3 } is
                    seeming the best way ... a method which gives all the info needed ...people
                    on the "On30" listes insist it is "On30" ... Not "On2 1/2 .. nobody says
                    "0n36" or "On24" ...so what we have is yet everybodies personal preferences
                    being touted as the way ..

                    I am not prepared to battle every comer about this ..you fellows call it
                    whatever you will ...

                    What I ask is that we just have a civil discourse .. no reason to load the
                    guns and call the hatfields over for a feud ...

                    AND REMEMBER ....
                    Have Fun ..... Charley
                  • jeffwh1@juno.com
                    Thanks everyone for all the replies to my question about code sizes. What is the distance between the rails on G Scale Track in inches? Jeff Horn
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 2, 2002
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                      Thanks everyone for all the replies to my question about code sizes.
                      What is the distance between the rails on "G" Scale Track in inches?
                      Jeff Horn
                      ________________________________________________________________
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                      Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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                    • Charley Lix
                      Jeff , fellows . ... Yet another can of worms... large squishy ones ...I think the Germans use 45mil ... some over here call it 1 3/4 inches ...I think it is
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 2, 2002
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                        Jeff , fellows .

                        >Jeff Horn


                        >What is the distance between the rails on "G" Scale Track in inches?




                        Yet another can of worms... large squishy ones ...I think the Germans use
                        45mil ... some over here call it 1 3/4 inches ...I think it is 45mil ...
                        gauge one ..



                        Have Fun ..... Charley
                      • Jim Holland
                        Good Morning! ... I believe that Charlie has pretty well hit the nail right on the head. According to the NMRA Standard S1 as updated on Oct--1999, G is
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 2, 2002
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                          Good Morning!

                          > Charley Lix wrote:

                          > "G" is not A scale ..really .. sorry for being such a snob ..a rail snob ..I
                          > have been called worse when it comes to rail sizes ... "G" seems to denote
                          > the catch all of scales used in the "G"arden ..

                          I believe that Charlie has pretty well hit the nail right on the
                          head. According to the NMRA Standard S1 as updated on
                          Oct--1999, "G" is Not Yet an Official Scale.
                          And while "G" may come from "LGB" as Al Guckes indicates,
                          Charley seems to be using "G" tongue--in--cheek when referring
                          to Garden railways which seem to include a wide variety of
                          *gauges* and//or *scales.*
                          Just learned the real difference between *scale* and *gauge*
                          recently on one of the lists - used to use them interchangeably
                          like many others. As a quick example, we have standard GAUGE
                          and narrow GAUGE trains, both to the same SCALE (1.24)
                          reduction. Gauge refers to distance between rails while Scale
                          is the reduction in size.

                          The NMRA S1 Standard *does* list proposal*S* for G as follows
                          (other scales included for reference - all "G" listed below are
                          simply proposals as are those for "F-" "M-" "A-" and "#1-Scales"
                          - those for 1", 3/4", 17/32", 1/2", "O", "S", "HO", etc. already
                          exist:::::::)

                          First comes *Name-of-Scale,* then *Scale-to-Foot,*
                          *Proportion,* and *Track-Gage*:::::::

                          1" 1.000" 1:12 4.750"

                          M 0.886" 1:13.5 4.173"

                          3/4" 0.750" 1:16 3.500"

                          F 0.591" 1:20.3 2.776"

                          G 0.533" 1:22.5 2.519"
                          Gm 0.533" 1:22.5 1.772"
                          aka II Scale.
                          Gn3 0.533" 1:22.5 1.614"
                          Gn2.5 0.533" 1:22.5 1.259"

                          17/32" 0.531" 1:22.6 2.500"

                          1/2" 0.500" 1:24 2.500"

                          17/32" is Finescale 1/2" just like 0-17 is Finescale "O". In
                          reality, G is not far off 1/2"-Scale but yet is being listed as a
                          separate proposal for a scale.
                          Note the 4-different proposals for G yet all are the same Scale
                          - same proportion - 1:22.5, but they differ in gauging - distance
                          between the rails. Understand Gn3 and Gn2.5, but not "Gm!"
                          (there are also 4-different proposals for the *Proposed "F" and
                          "A" Scales* much like those for "G" ("A" being 1.29.)
                          And #1 Scale, under proposal, also has 4-different entries and
                          is 1:32-Scale! How did it come up with the name of #1 -- very
                          easily confused with 1-Inch Scale!!!!!!

                          And like Charley, I have seen everything from 1:20 to 1:29
                          referred to as "G"!!!!!!

                          Now, who is going to suggest a 5th division for "G" (and others)
                          to include those of us who use Pennsylvania Broad Gauge - also
                          New Orleans???!!!(:->)

                          > 1:20.3 ..is 49...thousandths per scale inch ...divide rail height ..in
                          > thousanths ...by scale inches ..

                          > 7/8ths scale {1:13.7} .. has 73 thous in a scale inch ..divide rail height
                          > by scale inches ..

                          > I have a copy of A.C.S.E. rail standards ..height relating to weight ...
                          > trolley rail is heavier than Narrow gauge rails ..which I am used to ...we
                          > are looking for ... say 65# rail or so ...

                          > 50 pound is 3 7/8ths inches high ..
                          > 65# {pound} is 4 7/16ths high ..
                          > 75# is 4 13/16ths high ...
                          > 85# 5 3/16ths etc ...

                          > I just got in some code 332 steel rail for my garden line .. to be 7/8ths
                          > scale standard gauge ... so we work with 73 thous per inch ... divide 332 by
                          > 73 .. we get ... 4.54 inches high in scale ... that relates to 60 pound rail
                          > at 4 1/4 inches high ...and 65 pound at 4 7/16ths inches high ... closer to
                          > 65 pound rail ....which suits fine for a light trolley line ..
                          > Now code 250 .. for you guys doing 1:20.3 scale ..which makes gauge one
                          > ..three foot gauge... ? wasn't mount Lowe in California a NG line ? ..{ just
                          > saw some video of that line last night ..neat stuff ..} ...
                          > Code 250 / 49 thous / inch 5.1 inches high ..which relates to 80 # rail spot
                          > on .
                          > Hope this puts it all into perspective ...
                          > Have Fun ..... Charley

                          >> Bill Bolton wrote:

                          > On Fri, 01 Feb 2002 12:54:35 -0800, Charley wrote:

                          > "G" is not A scale ..really

                          >> Really.. it is! Its 1:22.5, despite the abuse given to that by
                          >> suppliers who apply it to a variety of scales from 1:29 upwards.

                          >> Bill Bolton
                          >> Sydney, Australia

                          >>> "Guckes, Albert" wrote:

                          >>> Actually I beleive that the "G" is from LGB, not from "Garden."
                          >>> I also think that denotes 1:22.5. Charley, you are certainly
                          >>> not a snob, it is confusing,

                          >>>> TrolleyJWT@... wrote:

                          >>>> Yes to be accurate "G" scale means different things to
                          >>>> different model builders.....Everything from 1/29 to
                          >>>> 1/13..7...What I was refering to, and what I build in is 1/2
                          >>>> inch to the foot......so my answers to you were predicated on
                          >>>> 1/2 inch equalling one foot......As far as whether
                          >>>> or not "G" is a scale I leave that to someone else to
                          >>>> debate......If I created confusion with my off hand answer I
                          >>>> apologize.......JOHN

                          <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                          James B. Holland

                          Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
                          ..."O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
                          ......"O"--Scale Parts mailto:pghpcc@...
                          ......Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
                          ...Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
                          N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org

                          <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                        • Bill Bolton
                          ... It may be a Not Yet an Official Scale for the NMRA, but the NMRA is only one of a number of standards organisation in the model railway/railroad field
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 3, 2002
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                            On Sat, 02 Feb 2002 23:26:33 -0800, Jim Holland wrote:

                            > I believe that Charlie has pretty well hit the nail right on the
                            > head. According to the NMRA Standard S1 as updated on
                            > Oct--1999, "G" is Not Yet an Official Scale.

                            It may be a "Not Yet an Official Scale" for the NMRA, but the NMRA is
                            only one of a number of standards organisation in the model
                            railway/railroad field worldwide. The NMRA and NEM for instance have
                            long disagreed over a number of issues of scale nomenclature.

                            > 3/4" 0.750" 1:16 3.500"

                            The NMRA liking for the use of imperial dimensions in scale
                            designations in a world which has largely converted to metric
                            measurements is making the latest promulgations of the NMRA on large
                            scale quite unlikely to received any world wide support. Similarly
                            for any other system which embeds imperial measurements in scale
                            designations.

                            Cheers,

                            Bill


                            Bill Bolton
                            Sydney, Australia
                          • Charley Lix
                            Fellows , ... Well , I suppose the NMRA .. and the other group ...? are trying to make some heads or tails of it... ... of scale nomenclature. ... They do not
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 4, 2002
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                              Fellows ,




                              >Bill Bolton
                              >Sydney, Australia


                              >It may be a "Not Yet an Official Scale" for the NMRA,

                              Well , I suppose the NMRA .. and the other group ...? are trying to make
                              some heads or tails of it...


                              >� The NMRA and NEM for instance have long disagreed over a number of issues
                              of scale nomenclature.
                              > 3/4"����� 0.750"����� 1:16����� 3.500"

                              They do not co-incide as to units ..of measure do they ..making things a bit
                              impossible ..


                              >The NMRA linking imperial dimensions in scale in a world largely converted
                              to metric
                              > unlikely to received any world wide support.�

                              Yup ..although I wouldn't expect them to allow that any others exist ..I am
                              personally not so pleased with the group ...although there is not one
                              "Group" it is a series of differing people over time , in the early 60's
                              ...they asked one fellow who was working on finescale wheel standards to
                              leave the organization ..some blasphemy about scale treads and flanges not
                              being feasible in models ..they shoot themselves in foot from time to time
                              ..


                              Have Fun ..... Charley
                            • Jim Holland
                              Good Morning! Charley:: When I made my reply the other day with the technical details, I had just returned from several days away with mountains of email.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 4, 2002
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                                Good Morning!

                                Charley:: When I made my reply the other day with the technical
                                details, I had just returned from several days away with
                                mountains of email. Your response and concern with the NMRA had
                                probably already arrived while I was in the process of organizing
                                for a response.

                                I understand your concerns - politics in every single
                                organization where humans are involved whether Govt., Business,
                                Pleasure, even the Church! You state it very nicely, though.

                                But we need a guide and think they have done a reasonable job
                                with that - recent DCC work as an example of modern day
                                leadership - so I'll stick with them!

                                >> Bill Bolton
                                >> Sydney, Australia

                                >> It may be a "Not Yet an Official Scale" for the NMRA,

                                > Charley Lix wrote:

                                > Well , I suppose the NMRA .. and the other group ...? are trying to make
                                > some heads or tails of it...

                                >> The NMRA and NEM for instance have long disagreed over a number of issues
                                >> of scale nomenclature. 3/4" 0.750" 1:16 3.500"

                                > They do not co-incide as to units ..of measure do they ..making things a bit
                                > impossible ..

                                >>The NMRA linking imperial dimensions in scale in a world largely converted
                                >> to metric unlikely to received any world wide support.

                                > Yup ..although I wouldn't expect them to allow that any others exist ..I am
                                > personally not so pleased with the group ...although there is not one
                                > "Group" it is a series of differing people over time , in the early 60's
                                > ...they asked one fellow who was working on finescale wheel standards to
                                > leave the organization ..some blasphemy about scale treads and flanges not
                                > being feasible in models ..they shoot themselves in foot from time to time
                                > ..

                                > Have Fun ..... Charley

                                <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                                James B. Holland

                                Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
                                ..."O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
                                ......"O"--Scale Parts mailto:pghpcc@...
                                ......Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
                                ...Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
                                N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org

                                <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                              • Brian Robinson
                                Dear Jim, The term Gm is actually reasonably logical. The scale represents metre gauge full-size track. 1:22.5 times 45mm gives 1012.5mm which is only half
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                  Dear Jim,
                                  The term Gm is actually reasonably logical. The scale
                                  represents metre gauge full-size track. 1:22.5 times 45mm gives
                                  1012.5mm which is only 'half an inch' off 1 metre or 1000mm. Well,
                                  it makes sense to us on the European side of the 'pond'. 8^}

                                  Cheers,
                                  Brian

                                  > The NMRA S1 Standard *does* list proposal*S* for G as follows
                                  >
                                  >First comes *Name-of-Scale,* then *Scale-to-Foot,*
                                  >*Proportion,* and *Track-Gage*:::::::
                                  >
                                  >G 0.533" 1:22.5 2.519"
                                  >Gm 0.533" 1:22.5 1.772"
                                  > aka II Scale.
                                  >Gn3 0.533" 1:22.5 1.614"
                                  >Gn2.5 0.533" 1:22.5 1.259"
                                  >
                                  > Note the 4-different proposals for G yet all are the same Scale
                                  >- same proportion - 1:22.5, but they differ in gauging - distance
                                  >between the rails. Understand Gn3 and Gn2.5, but not "Gm!"
                                  >
                                  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                                  >
                                  >James B. Holland
                                  >
                                  >Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
                                  >..."O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
                                  >......"O"--Scale Parts mailto:pghpcc@...
                                  >......Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
                                  >...Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
                                  >N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
                                  >
                                  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
                                • Jim Holland
                                  Good Morning! ... Sure is perfectly clear now.......Thank You! (Should have been obvious as well -- even on the other side of the pond!
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                    Good Morning!

                                    > Brian Robinson wrote:

                                    > Dear Jim,
                                    > The term Gm is actually reasonably logical. The scale
                                    > represents metre gauge full-size track. 1:22.5 times 45mm gives
                                    > 1012.5mm which is only 'half an inch' off 1 metre or 1000mm. Well,
                                    > it makes sense to us on the European side of the 'pond'. 8^}

                                    > Cheers,
                                    > Brian

                                    Sure is perfectly clear now.......Thank You! (Should have been
                                    obvious as well -- even on the other side of the pond!

                                    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                                    James B. Holland

                                    Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
                                    ..."O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
                                    ......"O"--Scale Parts mailto:pghpcc@...
                                    ......Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
                                    ...Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
                                    N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org

                                    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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