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Re: [largescaleTrolley] Plaster Street Construction

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  • Bill Bolton
    ... Finer scale gauge 1 track standards have been around for a looooooong time. You can use those if you want to. See....
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 30, 2003
      On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:38:22 -0600, John wrote:

      > It`s too bad that there are not some "Fine Scale" standards that
      > one could build to if desired.

      Finer scale gauge 1 track standards have been around for a looooooong
      time. You can use those if you want to.

      See.... http://www.nmra.org/standards/s-3.html

      Cheers

      Bill


      Bill Bolton
      Sydney, Australia
    • trolleycar68
      ... It`s too bad that there are not some Fine Scale standards that one could build to if desired. John, Help may be on the way - Our friend Karl Johnson is
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
        --- In largescaleTrolley@yahoogroups.com, "John M Franzen"
        <tracknquilt@m...> wrote:
        > Bob,
        >
        It`s too bad that there are not some "Fine Scale" standards that one
        could build to if desired.

        John,

        Help may be on the way -

        Our friend Karl Johnson is working on switch point sets that closely
        duplicate prototype stuff for streets - although tongue and mate (and
        single point switches) were sometimes installed on open trackwork too.
        The geometry will have to be checked since point sets are not a drop
        in for all track situations. We will have to get used to using
        compromise joiners as adapters when changing rail sizes but that
        should not be a show stopper.

        It would be kind of neat to showcase a section of open track built
        using smaller rail and thoroughly detailed, (nearly to Fine Scale),
        perhaps in an area near the front of the layout. It should not be
        incompatible for running if no specialwork or switches were involved.

        And 'better' wheelsets are also available; from Gary Raymond for one.
        I hear his stuff is very good and a WIDE variety is available. Not
        much of a problem to change out just the wheelsets on rolling stock,
        but you are right about power blocks, etc and having to live with them
        or go into a major project. I think NWSL has some better profile
        wheels available on their drives also, and maybe they will come out
        with change parts for the existing large scale power blocks if they
        see a demand.

        As to fine scale standards, they will be slow to evolve, at least as a
        published standard and will be modeler driven in my opinion. But
        small groups in O and HO have been doing this and we now can refer to
        PROTO 48 and PROTO 87 and in those scales nearly true to scale wheels
        and parts are available. See current article in MR about a finescale
        HO railroad project.

        Ain't it great how you are able to receive so many suggestions about
        what YOU should do while the rest of us couch potatoes sit back and
        watch?? (And envy your progress and results)

        Bob Kutella
      • Gordon Davis
        May I suggest that some of the plastic sheet products be used to represent street surfaces. There are several sources available and should give a most
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
          May I suggest that some of the plastic sheet products be used to represent street surfaces.  There are several sources available and should give a most appropriate surface.  A friend even uses commercial product as a 'master' and casts his own sheets using an epoxy.
          Gordon
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 1:15 AM
          Subject: Re: [largescaleTrolley] Plaster Street Construction

           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [largescaleTrolley] Plaster Street Construction

          Yikes!  If your subbase is 3/4" thick and your streets are 5/8" thick plaster, what do you use for legs on the layout -12" x 12" timbers?  Not meaning to sound critical, but do things REALLY need to be that heavy in this hobby?  I'm planning to build in a second story room, but perhaps I've underestimated the weight considerations......
          I will have to admit that my benchwork would probably hold up the whole Green Bay Packers football team.
          Necessary?  Probably not, but depends on the situation.
          The table legs are 2x4`s and the benchwork is made from 1x4`s all screwed together with #8 high pitch wood screws.  Some of my benchwork is 4` deep and I have to actually get up on top of it to install track, buildings and scenery.  And since Gilbert Brown and I use the same scale...well you get the picture!
          John F.



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        • Gordon Davis
          Check with the Gauge 1 people for proper rail/wheel flange size: Peco from England is available on this side of the pond, also check out Gargraves here in
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
            Check with the Gauge 1 people for proper rail/wheel flange size:  Peco from England is available on this side of the pond, also check out Gargraves here in up-State New York.
            Gordon
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 1:38 AM
            Subject: [largescaleTrolley] Plaster Street Construction

            Bob,
             
            Oshkosh can be cold, but not that cold!  Your idea about using rail scraps to create girder rail at the switch locations is something I will look into. Part of the problem is in using LGB switches and 332 rail.  The tolerences for flangeways, guard rails, frogs, etc., in LS trackwork are so loose so as to allow 2' radius curves, deep flanges and wide wheel treads that our models come with results in gross switchwork.  It`s too bad that there are not some "Fine Scale" standards that one could build to if desired.  In the meantime, if you want an operating layout using the existing equipment, power blocks, wheel sets, etc., on the market, you are stuck with what is available.  And I know that smaller rail is available, and you can hand lay track and switches,  but most, if not all, rolling stock and motive power adhear to the current gross standards of the industry.  What is a person to do?
             
            John F.


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          • joecrea@aol.com
            For street paving, I have used the blue or pink extruded foam for an underlayment, then topped it with Durham s Water putty, except along the rails. There, I
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
              For street paving, I have used the blue or pink extruded foam for an underlayment, then topped it with Durham's Water putty, except along the rails.  There, I used plastic brick sheet transversely between the rails, as well as a few rows of brick longitudinally outside the rails.

              This has worked well for the diorama i built, but has some drawbacks.  First, the street is somewhat fragile.  The water putty does chip away from the foam on occasion, and the foam itself is not all that crush-resistant.  This is not  a surface to stand on!  Lastly, I have not figured out a solution for the brick between the rails on a curve, as my diorama only had straight track.  It is, however, very light, so it does solve the weight problem.

              I'd be glad to post a photo, if anybody's interested.
              Joe
            • John M Franzen
              ... From: joecrea@aol.com To: largescaleTrolley@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [largescaleTrolley] Plaster Street
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 1, 2003
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:42 PM
                Subject: Re: [largescaleTrolley] Plaster Street Construction

                For street paving, I have used the blue or pink extruded foam for an underlayment, then topped it with Durham's Water putty, except along the rails.  There, I used plastic brick sheet transversely between the rails, as well as a few rows of brick longitudinally outside the rails.

                This has worked well for the diorama i built, but has some drawbacks.  First, the street is somewhat fragile.  The water putty does chip away from the foam on occasion, and the foam itself is not all that crush-resistant.  This is not  a surface to stand on!  Lastly, I have not figured out a solution for the brick between the rails on a curve, as my diorama only had straight track.  It is, however, very light, so it does solve the weight problem.

                Joe and others who have joined in this street construction discussion,
                 
                I think everyone`s comments have been very helpful and get us all thinking about various ways to get the job done.  And like most problems, there maybe no "best" solution; it depends on the individual situation and goals of the modeler and what he is building.  For example in my case, I thought about using some type of plastic brick sheet, or styrene, or foamboard, etc. and cutting them to fit around the various track components...but this seemed to involve a lot a fussy fitting and cutting around curves, switches, and a crossing in my track layout. Pouring plaster just seemed to be a lot easier in the long run.  Besides, plaster looks a lot more like concrete or blacktop when properly finished off.  The 5/8" thick plaster pours I have been making do use a lot of plaster, and I suppose I could have put down some type of filler...even maybe plain old cardboard...to reduce the thickness  of the streets.  But then, in the end it seemed to be just as quick to bite the bullet, mix the plaster, and pour the darn stuff!  I guess each one of us has to make up his on mind and just go do it!
                 
                John F.
                 
                PS. Joe please post your pictures.  I`m sure they will inspire us as always!


              • trolleycar68
                ... Joe, Yes we would like to see a photo. Your published work illustraed in magazine articles seems to be museum quality and I am sure this is no exception.
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
                  --- In largescaleTrolley@yahoogroups.com, joecrea@a... wrote:

                  > I'd be glad to post a photo, if anybody's interested.

                  Joe,

                  Yes we would like to see a photo. Your published work illustraed in
                  magazine articles seems to be museum quality and I am sure this is no
                  exception.

                  Bob Kutella
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