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Re: Trolley roofs

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  • trolleycar68
    I think the roof detail varied on PCC s by builder, date, and how the owner placed the order. Some did have a canvas section in a plug area around the
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 1, 2003
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      I think the roof detail varied on PCC's by builder, date, and how the
      owner placed the order. Some did have a canvas section in a "plug"
      area around the trolley base, some perhaps had a rubber mat covering
      in this area; but from the ground this area was almost invisible and
      I do not think it represented a canvas roof in the sense that there
      was a tack molding at the roof eave or drip line and an etire blanket
      of canvas was stretched and tacked down over the whole roof. And
      there were earlier and later cars that had various shrouds around the
      trolley base area to look streamlined from the ground, or had longer
      shrouds and or monitors of sheet metal for ventilation, etc.

      As I said originally, the only rule is that there are exceptions to
      every rule. For PCC's this can be complicated by various rebuildings
      and the fact that many of the cars saw second hand use in another city
      and were rebuilt or modified at that time.

      Bob Kutella
    • Jim Holland
      Good Morning! ... The design of the body used on PCC cars is distinctly different from the older cars *as a rule* with the curve between the sides and the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 1, 2003
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        Good Morning!

        > From: "trolleycar68" <68trolley@...>
        > Subject: Re: Trolley roofs

        > I think the roof detail varied on PCC's by builder,
        > date, and how the owner placed the order.
        > Some did have a canvas section in a "plug"
        > area around the trolley base, some perhaps had
        > a rubber mat covering in this area; but from the
        > ground this area was almost invisible and
        > I do not think it represented a canvas roof in the
        > sense that there was a tack molding at the roof
        > eave or drip line and an etire blanket of canvas
        > was stretched and tacked down over the whole roof.

        The design of the body used on PCC cars is distinctly
        different from the older cars *as a rule* with the curve
        between the sides and the roof so a clear edge between the two
        is not distinguishable. But the canvas Did Cover the whole
        *essentially--flat* area of the PCC roof on the *Body* of
        the car - not the platform ends - an area approximately
        34-feet-long and between 7-8-feet wide. The canvas was Not
        just around the trolley pole base.

        ALL discussion here is *As__Originally__Built.*

        The canvas roof on St.Louis PCC Air-Cars (Pullman may have
        been different) was not an option decided on by operators --
        it was quite standard. In *PCC-Car-That-Fought-Back*
        pg.88, last paragraph, I quote::

        """The central section of the standard car's roof was of
        canvas-covered plywood. At this date [of writing the book]
        the reasons are not clear, but the sound and electrical
        insulation properties as well as the low weight of wood may
        have been considerations......."""

        And on pg.98, under the title of ""The 1945 Model Car""
        (All-Electric,) last paragraph, I quote:

        """...Although the wood-and-canvas roof remained an option,
        the standard was now an all-steel roof."""

        The classic photo of car construction at St.Louis car in
        Young and Provenzo's *History of St.Louis Car Company*
        pgs.200-201 top center of San Diego cars shows an open roof
        section with cross bracings installed. This open section is
        for the canvas-plywood roof.

        Pg.55 clearly shows the canvas roof on the Brooklyn car, top
        photo. And in the classic 3-car-train photo of PE Pullmans
        on the Fletcher trestle on pg.93, it seems that a canvas roof
        is clearly delineated here as well -- so maybe Pullmans are
        not an exception.

        Pg.52 of *PCC-From-Coast-to-Coast* shows 2 CTA Air-Cars and
        the canvas roof is distinctly visible -- same for photos on
        pg.55.
        Pg.115 of LATL 3056, photo from ground level, still reveals
        the edge of the canvas running down the right side as does the
        photo of PRCo 1045 on pg.164.
        The photo on pg.138 showing Philly 2016 on display distinctly
        reveals the canvas roof covering the body of the car.
        A little more difficult to see but the photo on pg.184 of
        SLPS cars shows the canvas roof as described -- and these
        are all-electric cars. Believe that SLPS 1700s also had
        canvas roof later converted to metal.
        Photo of DCT 1152 on pg.222 shows the canvas roof as
        described as does top photo pg.227.
        TTC 4220 on pg.238 reveals canvas as described.
        BCER photo pg.250 reveals canvas roof on 2-different cars
        -- need to look close on closest PCC in photo, but canvas
        roof on car behind is painted a dark color with the front edge
        fading. All except bottom right photo on pg.253 reveal the
        canvas as well.

        The Model-B PCC clearly shows the canvas roof on pg.37 of
        DeMoro's PCC book. And pg.45 shows a large side view of
        Brooklyn 1001 and the length of the canvas roof is clearly
        discernible -- from immediately behind the front doors to
        the front edge of the very last window. Pg.57 also shows
        the construction of the PCC in lower right and open roof for
        canvas top.

        Again, while exceptions may exist, the Vast Majority of PCC
        Air-Cars were Originally Built with Canvas over Plywood Roof
        between platforms and covering the width of the roof.

        The rubber-mat was not needed on a canvas roof since canvas
        is an insulating material. The rubber mat is used on the
        All-Metal roof of the All-Electrics as on pg.60 showing a
        St.Louis CTA PCC, top left.

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        Waiting for a bus is about as thrilling as fishing,
        with the similar tantalisation that something,
        sometime, somehow, will turn up.
        George Courtauld

        <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

        James B. Holland

        Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
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