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Possible gear issue on a 360

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  • C Adams
    I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet. After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains
    Message 1 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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      I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet.

      After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains (the one on the leeward side of the landing) seemed to be setting at a different angle versus the other main.  I did get blown across the runway upon touch down but it was not a hard landing but the lateral force was probably high due to the tanks being full.

      When looking at the mains they usually appear to be canted out a few degrees but after this landing it looks like the affected main is either straight up and down or even canted in toward the center line by a small degree.  The difference between the two seems to be about 2 inches at the tire.

      I looked for obvious damage but could not discern any problems within the gear well or attach points and did not notice any obvious structural issues.  I could not tell why or how the gear seemed to be off from one another.

      Additionally I did move the plane around on the ramp to see if it was just a weight issue thinking the plane had just settled that way on the ramp.  The gear did not change after moving the plane on the ramp.

      The only obvious fix I could see was to jack the plane and reset the position of the lock nut on the gear arm locking mechanism to push the gear out further but this would seem to be masking the cause of the problem.

      Has anybody had a similar experience?

      Thanks,

      Cory

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lee Parker
      I had the same problem a while back after a less than hard landing.  I took the wheel off and took a small ram on a 4 ton porta power and pushed the axle back
      Message 2 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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        I had the same problem a while back after a less than hard landing.  I took the wheel off and took a small ram on a 4 ton porta power and pushed the axle back in place a little at a time.  I measured each time as not to push too much.  After I got it to where it looked right, I placed a lazer on the wheel and measured 8' in front of the wheels on both sides and 8' in front of both wheels on the front and compared the distance between the front and back.  It was 1/8" toe in at the front.  Then I checked the camber (degrees in or out at the top of the wheels) It was about one degree postive at the top on both wheels.  I took the plane out and taxied it a couple of times and then went flying.  It rolls out better than it ever has on landing.  If you do this make sure you have a good level surface to work on. 



        ________________________________
        From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
        To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM
        Subject: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


         
        I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet.

        After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains (the one on the leeward side of the landing) seemed to be setting at a different angle versus the other main.  I did get blown across the runway upon touch down but it was not a hard landing but the lateral force was probably high due to the tanks being full.

        When looking at the mains they usually appear to be canted out a few degrees but after this landing it looks like the affected main is either straight up and down or even canted in toward the center line by a small degree.  The difference between the two seems to be about 2 inches at the tire.

        I looked for obvious damage but could not discern any problems within the gear well or attach points and did not notice any obvious structural issues.  I could not tell why or how the gear seemed to be off from one another.

        Additionally I did move the plane around on the ramp to see if it was just a weight issue thinking the plane had just settled that way on the ramp.  The gear did not change after moving the plane on the ramp.

        The only obvious fix I could see was to jack the plane and reset the position of the lock nut on the gear arm locking mechanism to push the gear out further but this would seem to be masking the cause of the problem.

        Has anybody had a similar experience?

        Thanks,

        Cory

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • C Adams
        Hi Lee, Did this mean that your axle had been bent upwards from the attach point?  If I understand the problem that you addressed it seems to be different
        Message 3 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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          Hi Lee,

          Did this mean that your axle had been bent upwards from the attach point? 

          If I understand the problem that you addressed it seems to be different that mine in that my entire main gear assembly seems to be bent inward and not just the axle at the wheel?  Or where you actually pushing/bending the main gear strut?  

          Thanks,

          Cory


          ________________________________
          From: Lee Parker <le62347@...>
          To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 3:32 PM
          Subject: Re: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


           
          I had the same problem a while back after a less than hard landing.  I took the wheel off and took a small ram on a 4 ton porta power and pushed the axle back in place a little at a time.  I measured each time as not to push too much.  After I got it to where it looked right, I placed a lazer on the wheel and measured 8' in front of the wheels on both sides and 8' in front of both wheels on the front and compared the distance between the front and back.  It was 1/8" toe in at the front.  Then I checked the camber (degrees in or out at the top of the wheels) It was about one degree postive at the top on both wheels.  I took the plane out and taxied it a couple of times and then went flying.  It rolls out better than it ever has on landing.  If you do this make sure you have a good level surface to work on. 

          ________________________________
          From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
          To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM
          Subject: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360

           
          I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet.

          After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains (the one on the leeward side of the landing) seemed to be setting at a different angle versus the other main.  I did get blown across the runway upon touch down but it was not a hard landing but the lateral force was probably high due to the tanks being full.

          When looking at the mains they usually appear to be canted out a few degrees but after this landing it looks like the affected main is either straight up and down or even canted in toward the center line by a small degree.  The difference between the two seems to be about 2 inches at the tire.

          I looked for obvious damage but could not discern any problems within the gear well or attach points and did not notice any obvious structural issues.  I could not tell why or how the gear seemed to be off from one another.

          Additionally I did move the plane around on the ramp to see if it was just a weight issue thinking the plane had just settled that way on the ramp.  The gear did not change after moving the plane on the ramp.

          The only obvious fix I could see was to jack the plane and reset the position of the lock nut on the gear arm locking mechanism to push the gear out further but this would seem to be masking the cause of the problem.

          Has anybody had a similar experience?

          Thanks,

          Cory

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lamberto Roscioli
          Hello Cory, I d like to first ask if you have complied with Service Bulletin SB050-0999.  You can find this here: 
          Message 4 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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            Hello Cory,

            I'd like to first ask if you have complied with Service Bulletin SB050-0999.  You can find this here:  http://www.lancair.com/media/bulletins/SB050.pdf

            It is possible that the GM13 attach block has come loose and is hidden from inspection from the GM4 bracket (I know you mentioned that there is no obvious damage, but obviously if the gear is in an altered position, then there is some damage some where). So you might want to look there...


            I would think most likely the main gear weldment is bent. Ensure the arm is perfectly straight from the GM4 bracket, at the "gear arm locking mechanism" and beyond.  As you mentioned, resetting the position of the lock nut on the over center link will be masking the problem.  Where the gear assembly has taken the load, it is structurally weakened, so I would very look carefully.

            Good luck!
            Lamberto



            ________________________________
            From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
            To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM
            Subject: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


             
            I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet.

            After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains (the one on the leeward side of the landing) seemed to be setting at a different angle versus the other main.  I did get blown across the runway upon touch down but it was not a hard landing but the lateral force was probably high due to the tanks being full.

            When looking at the mains they usually appear to be canted out a few degrees but after this landing it looks like the affected main is either straight up and down or even canted in toward the center line by a small degree.  The difference between the two seems to be about 2 inches at the tire.

            I looked for obvious damage but could not discern any problems within the gear well or attach points and did not notice any obvious structural issues.  I could not tell why or how the gear seemed to be off from one another.

            Additionally I did move the plane around on the ramp to see if it was just a weight issue thinking the plane had just settled that way on the ramp.  The gear did not change after moving the plane on the ramp.

            The only obvious fix I could see was to jack the plane and reset the position of the lock nut on the gear arm locking mechanism to push the gear out further but this would seem to be masking the cause of the problem.

            Has anybody had a similar experience?

            Thanks,

            Cory

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lee Parker
            I couldn t find anything bent.  I think the whole thing was sprung.  I gently pushed it back in the right direction until I was satisfied with it and
            Message 5 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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              I couldn't find anything bent.  I think the whole thing was sprung.  I gently pushed it back in the right direction until I was satisfied with it and measured it each time.  I have some experience with two other Lancairs that suffered the same problem.  We did the same thing to them, being careful not to push too hard  and checking for any stress or cracks.  I guess that's why some people go to the outback gear.  Also check to see if the SB has been done on your gear.


              ________________________________
              From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
              To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 3:47 PM
              Subject: Re: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


               
              Hi Lee,

              Did this mean that your axle had been bent upwards from the attach point? 

              If I understand the problem that you addressed it seems to be different that mine in that my entire main gear assembly seems to be bent inward and not just the axle at the wheel?  Or where you actually pushing/bending the main gear strut?  

              Thanks,

              Cory

              ________________________________
              From: Lee Parker <le62347@...>
              To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 3:32 PM
              Subject: Re: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


               
              I had the same problem a while back after a less than hard landing.  I took the wheel off and took a small ram on a 4 ton porta power and pushed the axle back in place a little at a time.  I measured each time as not to push too much.  After I got it to where it looked right, I placed a lazer on the wheel and measured 8' in front of the wheels on both sides and 8' in front of both wheels on the front and compared the distance between the front and back.  It was 1/8" toe in at the front.  Then I checked the camber (degrees in or out at the top of the wheels) It was about one degree postive at the top on both wheels.  I took the plane out and taxied it a couple of times and then went flying.  It rolls out better than it ever has on landing.  If you do this make sure you have a good level surface to work on. 

              ________________________________
              From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
              To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM
              Subject: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360

               
              I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet.

              After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains (the one on the leeward side of the landing) seemed to be setting at a different angle versus the other main.  I did get blown across the runway upon touch down but it was not a hard landing but the lateral force was probably high due to the tanks being full.

              When looking at the mains they usually appear to be canted out a few degrees but after this landing it looks like the affected main is either straight up and down or even canted in toward the center line by a small degree.  The difference between the two seems to be about 2 inches at the tire.

              I looked for obvious damage but could not discern any problems within the gear well or attach points and did not notice any obvious structural issues.  I could not tell why or how the gear seemed to be off from one another.

              Additionally I did move the plane around on the ramp to see if it was just a weight issue thinking the plane had just settled that way on the ramp.  The gear did not change after moving the plane on the ramp.

              The only obvious fix I could see was to jack the plane and reset the position of the lock nut on the gear arm locking mechanism to push the gear out further but this would seem to be masking the cause of the problem.

              Has anybody had a similar experience?

              Thanks,

              Cory

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • C Adams
              Lamberto and Lee, Thank you for the SB link.  I will check to see if the SB has been complied with and also inspect the attach points for any damage. Lee I
              Message 6 of 7 , May 9, 2012
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                Lamberto and Lee,

                Thank you for the SB link.  I will check to see if the SB has been complied with and also inspect the attach points for any damage.

                Lee I may hit you up for more detail on what you had done but will also look to see if the gear assembly itself is bent in any way with a straight edge which I think is possible if there is no damage to the attach points.

                Thank you,

                Cory


                ________________________________
                From: Lamberto Roscioli <lamberto_r@...>
                To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 8:35 PM
                Subject: Re: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


                 
                Hello Cory,

                I'd like to first ask if you have complied with Service Bulletin SB050-0999.  You can find this here:  http://www.lancair.com/media/bulletins/SB050.pdf

                It is possible that the GM13 attach block has come loose and is hidden from inspection from the GM4 bracket (I know you mentioned that there is no obvious damage, but obviously if the gear is in an altered position, then there is some damage some where). So you might want to look there...

                I would think most likely the main gear weldment is bent. Ensure the arm is perfectly straight from the GM4 bracket, at the "gear arm locking mechanism" and beyond.  As you mentioned, resetting the position of the lock nut on the over center link will be masking the problem.  Where the gear assembly has taken the load, it is structurally weakened, so I would very look carefully.

                Good luck!
                Lamberto

                ________________________________
                From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
                To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM
                Subject: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


                 
                I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet.

                After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains (the one on the leeward side of the landing) seemed to be setting at a different angle versus the other main.  I did get blown across the runway upon touch down but it was not a hard landing but the lateral force was probably high due to the tanks being full.

                When looking at the mains they usually appear to be canted out a few degrees but after this landing it looks like the affected main is either straight up and down or even canted in toward the center line by a small degree.  The difference between the two seems to be about 2 inches at the tire.

                I looked for obvious damage but could not discern any problems within the gear well or attach points and did not notice any obvious structural issues.  I could not tell why or how the gear seemed to be off from one another.

                Additionally I did move the plane around on the ramp to see if it was just a weight issue thinking the plane had just settled that way on the ramp.  The gear did not change after moving the plane on the ramp.

                The only obvious fix I could see was to jack the plane and reset the position of the lock nut on the gear arm locking mechanism to push the gear out further but this would seem to be masking the cause of the problem.

                Has anybody had a similar experience?

                Thanks,

                Cory

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • C Adams
                I checked the gear and found that one was bent out about 1.3 degrees with the other bent in about 3.2 degrees.  When I took a straight edge to the top of the
                Message 7 of 7 , May 10, 2012
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                  I checked the gear and found that one was bent out about 1.3 degrees with the other bent in about 3.2 degrees.  When I took a straight edge to the top of the gear I could see that it bent near the top where the gear lock meats the main.

                  Also I did confirm that the SB was done.

                  Lee can please you share how you bent the gear back using the Porta Power?  Did you take the gear off entirely to do this or was there some way that you found to brace the gear in place to do this and if so how was that done?

                  Thanks,

                  Cory


                  ________________________________
                  From: Lee Parker <le62347@...>
                  To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 8:45 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360


                   
                  I couldn't find anything bent.  I think the whole thing was sprung.  I gently pushed it back in the right direction until I was satisfied with it and measured it each time.  I have some experience with two other Lancairs that suffered the same problem.  We did the same thing to them, being careful not to push too hard  and checking for any stress or cracks.  I guess that's why some people go to the outback gear.  Also check to see if the SB has been done on your gear.

                  ________________________________
                  From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
                  To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 3:47 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360

                   
                  Hi Lee,

                  Did this mean that your axle had been bent upwards from the attach point? 

                  If I understand the problem that you addressed it seems to be different that mine in that my entire main gear assembly seems to be bent inward and not just the axle at the wheel?  Or where you actually pushing/bending the main gear strut?  

                  Thanks,

                  Cory

                  ________________________________
                  From: Lee Parker <le62347@...>
                  To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 3:32 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360

                   
                  I had the same problem a while back after a less than hard landing.  I took the wheel off and took a small ram on a 4 ton porta power and pushed the axle back in place a little at a time.  I measured each time as not to push too much.  After I got it to where it looked right, I placed a lazer on the wheel and measured 8' in front of the wheels on both sides and 8' in front of both wheels on the front and compared the distance between the front and back.  It was 1/8" toe in at the front.  Then I checked the camber (degrees in or out at the top of the wheels) It was about one degree postive at the top on both wheels.  I took the plane out and taxied it a couple of times and then went flying.  It rolls out better than it ever has on landing.  If you do this make sure you have a good level surface to work on. 

                  ________________________________
                  From: C Adams <coryadams@...>
                  To: "lancair@yahoogroups.com" <lancair@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM
                  Subject: [Lancair] Possible gear issue on a 360

                   
                  I have a 360 with the original stock gear and the shock rather than rubber grommet.

                  After a landing with a significant cross wind I noticed one of the mains (the one on the leeward side of the landing) seemed to be setting at a different angle versus the other main.  I did get blown across the runway upon touch down but it was not a hard landing but the lateral force was probably high due to the tanks being full.

                  When looking at the mains they usually appear to be canted out a few degrees but after this landing it looks like the affected main is either straight up and down or even canted in toward the center line by a small degree.  The difference between the two seems to be about 2 inches at the tire.

                  I looked for obvious damage but could not discern any problems within the gear well or attach points and did not notice any obvious structural issues.  I could not tell why or how the gear seemed to be off from one another.

                  Additionally I did move the plane around on the ramp to see if it was just a weight issue thinking the plane had just settled that way on the ramp.  The gear did not change after moving the plane on the ramp.

                  The only obvious fix I could see was to jack the plane and reset the position of the lock nut on the gear arm locking mechanism to push the gear out further but this would seem to be masking the cause of the problem.

                  Has anybody had a similar experience?

                  Thanks,

                  Cory

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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