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Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill

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  • george_rf
    Flox is chopped cotton fiber not glass fiber Disclaimer ; opinions of others will vary depending on what they’re selling   This is my website
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 28, 2009
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      Flox is chopped cotton fiber not glass fiber



      Disclaimer ; opinions of others will vary depending on what they’re selling
       
      This is my website
      http://curedcomposites.netfirms.com/index.html
      Look all you want but don't touch

      --- On Sat, 2/28/09, cassutt@... <cassutt@...> wrote:

      From: cassutt@... <cassutt@...>
      Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
      To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@...>
      Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:19 PM






      Anthony,

      Your terminology is incorrect. "Micro" is the term used for the sandable filler. Micro is very small glass beads mixed with the epoxy and Flox is chopped glass fiber used for more structural applications. You don't want to have to sand flox if you don't have to, kind of hard. And yes most all joints need to be completely covered and sanded to the contour you want for a desirable finish. Paint will not hide anything, it only shows everybody how poor your bodywork was, only shiner.

      Eric D
      360 SB

      ---- Anthony <cdnpilot2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I myself
      > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that specifically
      > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were smooth
      > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to how much flox
      > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
      > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that some
      > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show once I
      > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
      >
      > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
      > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all the
      > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
      >
      > -Anthony
      >


















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • berndsenco
      Anthony, Follow the instructions in this guide for all your finishing: http://curedcomposites.netfirms.com/finish.html It has everything you need to know in a
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 1 8:01 AM
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        Anthony,

        Follow the instructions in this guide for all your finishing:
        http://curedcomposites.netfirms.com/finish.html It has everything
        you need to know in a well written guide.

        Do NOT use bondo for filler as it will shrink over time and show
        through the paint. Don't leave any valleys as they will really show
        up when you put glossy paint over them. All surfaces should be
        covered with micro and sanded down until just the high spots start to
        show, that way you have a uniform surface hardness for even sanding.

        Jon


        --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Tony molle <cdnpilot2002@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ooop, yes I meant micro (my bad).  The joins are all fine doesn't
        seem to need tooooo much, but I was more concerned about entire
        surfaces say like the elevator... it's all nice and smooth, but seems
        to have a bit of a valley just in some areas (as you near the
        trailing edge). I just don't want to cover the entire surface with
        micro if I am just over-reacting to something normal. I did it to the
        underside of the trim tab and MAN IS IT NICE! Again, just not sure if
        i should be doing that over both top and bottom surfaces of the
        elevators (and I am guessing probably the ailerons and flaps).
        >
        > Thanks for all the replies
        >
        > -Anthony
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: "galaxyone@..." <Galaxyone@...>
        > To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:49:30 AM
        > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
        >
        >
        > Most probably it was micro, a mixture of tiny glass balloons and
        epoxy, that had been used. There are other materials available,
        aerolight is one available from AS&S that are all very similar. Flox
        would be heavier and much harder to sand. What you are looking for is
        a material that is light, a good filler and easy to sand. Welcome to
        he sanders club!
        > Henry
        >
        > -- "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I
        myself
        > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that
        specifically
        > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were
        smooth
        > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to how much
        flox
        > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
        > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that
        some
        > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show
        once I
        > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
        >
        > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
        > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all the
        > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
        >
        > -Anthony
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > Click here to save cash and find low rates on auto loans.
        > http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTLaWy7q
        MerSZet1dR2Zcld4 bQEc9tKzSWZGd1OF QEk76o9asageq8/
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Dan DeNeal
        Thanks Jon, I really enjoyed reading the article. The big thing it taught me was that I have been laying up micro the wrong way (making it too runny) and
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 2 5:42 AM
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          Thanks Jon,
          I really enjoyed reading the article. The big thing it taught me was that I have been laying up micro the wrong way (making it too runny) and using the wrong grit sandpaper (150 & 220 to start with). And, I was taught to fill "the low spots". 
           
          I think this knowledge will help me from getting stuck in a routine that is so time consuming!
          Thanks!!!
          Dan


          --- On Sun, 3/1/09, berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          From: berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [Lancair] Re: how much "fill" is too much fill
          To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 10:01 AM






          Anthony,

          Follow the instructions in this guide for all your finishing:
          http://curedcomposi tes.netfirms. com/finish. html It has everything
          you need to know in a well written guide.

          Do NOT use bondo for filler as it will shrink over time and show
          through the paint. Don't leave any valleys as they will really show
          up when you put glossy paint over them. All surfaces should be
          covered with micro and sanded down until just the high spots start to
          show, that way you have a uniform surface hardness for even sanding.

          Jon

          --- In lancair@yahoogroups .com, Tony molle <cdnpilot2002@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Ooop, yes I meant micro (my bad).  The joins are all fine doesn't
          seem to need tooooo much, but I was more concerned about entire
          surfaces say like the elevator... it's all nice and smooth, but seems
          to have a bit of a valley just in some areas (as you near the
          trailing edge). I just don't want to cover the entire surface with
          micro if I am just over-reacting to something normal. I did it to the
          underside of the trim tab and MAN IS IT NICE! Again, just not sure if
          i should be doing that over both top and bottom surfaces of the
          elevators (and I am guessing probably the ailerons and flaps).
          >
          > Thanks for all the replies
          >
          > -Anthony
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ __
          > From: "galaxyone@. .." <Galaxyone@. ..>
          > To: lancair@yahoogroups .com
          > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:49:30 AM
          > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
          >
          >
          > Most probably it was micro, a mixture of tiny glass balloons and
          epoxy, that had been used. There are other materials available,
          aerolight is one available from AS&S that are all very similar. Flox
          would be heavier and much harder to sand. What you are looking for is
          a material that is light, a good filler and easy to sand. Welcome to
          he sanders club!
          > Henry
          >
          > -- "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
          > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I
          myself
          > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that
          specifically
          > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were
          smooth
          > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to how much
          flox
          > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
          > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that
          some
          > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show
          once I
          > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
          >
          > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
          > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all the
          > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
          >
          > -Anthony
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > Click here to save cash and find low rates on auto loans.
          > http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTLaWy7q
          MerSZet1dR2Zcld4 bQEc9tKzSWZGd1OF QEk76o9asageq8/
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >



















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • berndsenco
          Dan, Mixing the micro too runny leaves the mix with too much resin and makes it very hard to sand. Plus, a resin rich micro mix is prone to cracking if it
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 2 6:20 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Dan,

            Mixing the micro too runny leaves the mix with too much resin and
            makes it very hard to sand. Plus, a resin rich micro mix is prone to
            cracking if it gets flexed at all. Mix the micro as directed in the
            guide and try to make every batch as uniform in consistency as
            possible. That way you'll avoid having problems when sanding due to
            some areas being harder and some softer. A trick that I use is to
            weigh how much resin and how much micro makes the ideal blend. For
            instance, I'm using West Systems resin and each time I mix a batch of
            micro I use 70 grams of resin and 20 grams of micro. Of course, that
            ratio is based on a particular temperature in the shop. That ratio
            gives me the perfect mix and every batch I make is consistent so when
            I sand, it all sands evenly. No hard or soft spots. You will need
            to determine your own ideal mix based upon the resin you're using,
            and the temperature you are working in.

            Jon


            --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks Jon,
            > I really enjoyed reading the article. The big thing it taught me
            was that I have been laying up micro the wrong way (making it too
            runny) and using the wrong grit sandpaper (150 & 220 to start with).
            And, I was taught to fill "the low spots". 
            >  
            > I think this knowledge will help me from getting stuck in a routine
            that is so time consuming!
            > Thanks!!!
            > Dan
            >
            >
            > --- On Sun, 3/1/09, berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            >
            > From: berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: [Lancair] Re: how much "fill" is too much fill
            > To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 10:01 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Anthony,
            >
            > Follow the instructions in this guide for all your finishing:
            > http://curedcomposi tes.netfirms. com/finish. html It has
            everything
            > you need to know in a well written guide.
            >
            > Do NOT use bondo for filler as it will shrink over time and show
            > through the paint. Don't leave any valleys as they will really show
            > up when you put glossy paint over them. All surfaces should be
            > covered with micro and sanded down until just the high spots start
            to
            > show, that way you have a uniform surface hardness for even sanding.
            >
            > Jon
            >
            > --- In lancair@yahoogroups .com, Tony molle <cdnpilot2002@ ...>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > Ooop, yes I meant micro (my bad).  The joins are all fine doesn't
            > seem to need tooooo much, but I was more concerned about entire
            > surfaces say like the elevator... it's all nice and smooth, but
            seems
            > to have a bit of a valley just in some areas (as you near the
            > trailing edge). I just don't want to cover the entire surface with
            > micro if I am just over-reacting to something normal. I did it to
            the
            > underside of the trim tab and MAN IS IT NICE! Again, just not sure
            if
            > i should be doing that over both top and bottom surfaces of the
            > elevators (and I am guessing probably the ailerons and flaps).
            > >
            > > Thanks for all the replies
            > >
            > > -Anthony
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ __
            > > From: "galaxyone@ .." <Galaxyone@ ..>
            > > To: lancair@yahoogroups .com
            > > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:49:30 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
            > >
            > >
            > > Most probably it was micro, a mixture of tiny glass balloons and
            > epoxy, that had been used. There are other materials available,
            > aerolight is one available from AS&S that are all very similar.
            Flox
            > would be heavier and much harder to sand. What you are looking for
            is
            > a material that is light, a good filler and easy to sand. Welcome
            to
            > he sanders club!
            > > Henry
            > >
            > > -- "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
            > > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I
            > myself
            > > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that
            > specifically
            > > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were
            > smooth
            > > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to how much
            > flox
            > > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
            > > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that
            > some
            > > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show
            > once I
            > > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
            > >
            > > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
            > > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all
            the
            > > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
            > >
            > > -Anthony
            > >
            > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > Click here to save cash and find low rates on auto loans.
            > > http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTLaWy7q
            > MerSZet1dR2Zcld4 bQEc9tKzSWZGd1OF QEk76o9asageq8/
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Dan DeNeal
            Jon, Fortunatley, I have only mixed small amounts of micro and most of that has been sanded off. I am using two epoxy s: West System and Aeropoxy. I like the
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 2 10:13 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Jon,
              Fortunatley, I have only mixed small amounts of micro and most of that has been sanded off. I am using two epoxy's: West System and Aeropoxy. I like the West System better for micro as it has a shorter cure time. But if I will be spreading alot of micro I'll probably switch over to Aeropoxy as it will stay open much longer.
               
              I live in the midwest (Illinois) where the temperature gets pretty cold. The temperature in my garage stays around 55 thru the winter. I bring it up to 65 when I'm working.
               
              I keep my resins in a heated box so they are always at 80 degrees. After laying up something on the airplane, I throw a tarp over that area with a little heater with termastat and keep that temperature around 100. I have found that if I do not keep it warm for 24 hours, it can take several days to cure.
               
              Are you flying or building?
              Dan
               
               

              --- On Mon, 3/2/09, berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              From: berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [Lancair] Re: how much "fill" is too much fill
              To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 8:20 AM






              Dan,

              Mixing the micro too runny leaves the mix with too much resin and
              makes it very hard to sand. Plus, a resin rich micro mix is prone to
              cracking if it gets flexed at all. Mix the micro as directed in the
              guide and try to make every batch as uniform in consistency as
              possible. That way you'll avoid having problems when sanding due to
              some areas being harder and some softer. A trick that I use is to
              weigh how much resin and how much micro makes the ideal blend. For
              instance, I'm using West Systems resin and each time I mix a batch of
              micro I use 70 grams of resin and 20 grams of micro. Of course, that
              ratio is based on a particular temperature in the shop. That ratio
              gives me the perfect mix and every batch I make is consistent so when
              I sand, it all sands evenly. No hard or soft spots. You will need
              to determine your own ideal mix based upon the resin you're using,
              and the temperature you are working in.

              Jon

              --- In lancair@yahoogroups .com, Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@. ..> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Jon,
              > I really enjoyed reading the article. The big thing it taught me
              was that I have been laying up micro the wrong way (making it too
              runny) and using the wrong grit sandpaper (150 & 220 to start with).
              And, I was taught to fill "the low spots". 
              >  
              > I think this knowledge will help me from getting stuck in a routine
              that is so time consuming!
              > Thanks!!!
              > Dan
              >
              >
              > --- On Sun, 3/1/09, berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
              >
              > From: berndsenco <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com>
              > Subject: [Lancair] Re: how much "fill" is too much fill
              > To: lancair@yahoogroups .com
              > Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 10:01 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Anthony,
              >
              > Follow the instructions in this guide for all your finishing:
              > http://curedcomposi tes.netfirms. com/finish. html It has
              everything
              > you need to know in a well written guide.
              >
              > Do NOT use bondo for filler as it will shrink over time and show
              > through the paint. Don't leave any valleys as they will really show
              > up when you put glossy paint over them. All surfaces should be
              > covered with micro and sanded down until just the high spots start
              to
              > show, that way you have a uniform surface hardness for even sanding.
              >
              > Jon
              >
              > --- In lancair@yahoogroups .com, Tony molle <cdnpilot2002@ ...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > Ooop, yes I meant micro (my bad).  The joins are all fine doesn't
              > seem to need tooooo much, but I was more concerned about entire
              > surfaces say like the elevator... it's all nice and smooth, but
              seems
              > to have a bit of a valley just in some areas (as you near the
              > trailing edge). I just don't want to cover the entire surface with
              > micro if I am just over-reacting to something normal. I did it to
              the
              > underside of the trim tab and MAN IS IT NICE! Again, just not sure
              if
              > i should be doing that over both top and bottom surfaces of the
              > elevators (and I am guessing probably the ailerons and flaps).
              > >
              > > Thanks for all the replies
              > >
              > > -Anthony
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > > From: "galaxyone@ .." <Galaxyone@ ..>
              > > To: lancair@yahoogroups .com
              > > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:49:30 AM
              > > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
              > >
              > >
              > > Most probably it was micro, a mixture of tiny glass balloons and
              > epoxy, that had been used. There are other materials available,
              > aerolight is one available from AS&S that are all very similar.
              Flox
              > would be heavier and much harder to sand. What you are looking for
              is
              > a material that is light, a good filler and easy to sand. Welcome
              to
              > he sanders club!
              > > Henry
              > >
              > > -- "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              > > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I
              > myself
              > > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that
              > specifically
              > > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were
              > smooth
              > > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to how much
              > flox
              > > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
              > > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that
              > some
              > > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show
              > once I
              > > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
              > >
              > > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
              > > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all
              the
              > > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
              > >
              > > -Anthony
              > >
              > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > Click here to save cash and find low rates on auto loans.
              > > http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTLaWy7q
              > MerSZet1dR2Zcld4 bQEc9tKzSWZGd1OF QEk76o9asageq8/
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              >
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              >
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >



















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mikeeasley
              One thing nice about the West System is the choice of hardeners. I used the slow hardener for large batches of micro. Sure it takes longer to cure, but it
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 3 4:33 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                One thing nice about the West System is the choice of hardeners. I used the slow hardener for large batches of micro. Sure it takes longer to cure, but it gives you more working time. Also, another trick that works well is to mix the micro very dry, almost to where it starts to fall apart and not stay in a ball. When you spread it on the airframe, it wants to skip areas and not spread evenly. Just use a little heat from a heat gun and it turns very smooth and easy to spread. You get the best of both worlds, easy spreading and easy sanding. I agree that you should always wet out the surface, but use paper towels to remove excess resin that will soak into the micro mixture and make it runnier and harder to sand.

                Mike Easley
                Colorado Springs


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Standish
                The gray fuel sealer supplied by lancair has been very durable in my wheel wells and easy to clean. I put it everywhere 5606 might leak. You need to prep the
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 7 7:30 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  The gray fuel sealer supplied by lancair has been very durable in my wheel wells and easy to clean. I put it everywhere 5606 might leak. You need to prep the area just as you would the tanks.

                  http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=9700-1G&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=992b7b06-e01b-4918-bb0c-79343cdb7869

                  David


                  --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Do you paint it or expoy it (left over from fuel tank)? What have you guys done?
                  > Dan
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Santa Barbara Executive Jet <flysbej@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Santa Barbara Executive Jet <flysbej@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
                  > To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 2:54 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Get ready for some fun...... It took more time on micro finish than building the airplane.
                  > If was doing it over I'd just micro the major problem areas and get them close to fair. Then prime the entire airframe with a fill primer. Sand...Do any final additional fill...reprime and wetsand. Any small stuff that was needed or pinholes Id use a spot filler after it was done.
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, galaxyone@juno. com <Galaxyone@juno. com> wrote:
                  >
                  > > From: galaxyone@juno. com <Galaxyone@juno. com>
                  > > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
                  > > To: lancair@yahoogroups .com
                  > > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:09 PM
                  > > Mike is right, micro does have some problems. I should have
                  > > added earlier that the micro needs to be very dry to make it
                  > > a light weigh filler. To use it that way first brush the
                  > > depression with epoxy then wipe as much as possible off. If
                  > > the micro is too dry to spread and feather out you can add
                  > > some alcohol to it to thin it out and it spreads quite well.
                  > > Henry
                  > >
                  > > -- mikeeasley <mikeeasley@aol. com> wrote:
                  > > Flox is cotton fibers and is like a brick when it hardens.
                  > > Micro works well for about 90% of the contouring, then
                  > > it's easier to work with a primer-surfacer. Micro
                  > > always seems to have some voids and pinholes and it
                  > > doesn't feather out very well. So I would recommend
                  > > getting your contouring close with micro, then go to a
                  > > primer-surfacer like the WLS Lancair sells, or use a local
                  > > automotive paint shop to purchase a good quality primer
                  > > surfacer. I would use any primer that's not catalyzed
                  > > (two part). Any areas that have a thick micro fill,
                  > > it's a good idea to do a 1 BID layup over the body work
                  > > to prevent cracking later on, you can use a lighter weight
                  > > fabric for the layup.
                  > >
                  > > When it comes to Lancair bodywork, there are probably as
                  > > many opinions as there are people doing it.
                  > >
                  > > Mike Easley
                  > > Colorado Springs
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > In a message dated 02/28/09 10:18:44 Mountain Standard
                  > > Time, cassutt@windstream. net writes:
                  > > Anthony,
                  > >
                  > > Your terminology is incorrect. "Micro" is the
                  > > term used for the sandable filler. Micro is very small glass
                  > > beads mixed with the epoxy and Flox is chopped glass fiber
                  > > used for more structural applications. You don't want to
                  > > have to sand flox if you don't have to, kind of hard.
                  > > And yes most all joints need to be completely covered and
                  > > sanded to the contour you want for a desirable finish. Paint
                  > > will not hide anything, it only shows everybody how poor
                  > > your bodywork was, only shiner.
                  > >
                  > > Eric D
                  > > 360 SB
                  > >
                  > > ---- Anthony <cdnpilot2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                  > > > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night..
                  > > pictures that I myself
                  > > > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking
                  > > at that specifically
                  > > > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of
                  > > them were smooth
                  > > > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to
                  > > how much flox
                  > > > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the
                  > > skins. I have the carbon
                  > > > larger tail and although she looks true and straight,
                  > > I fear that some
                  > > > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor,
                  > > will show once I
                  > > > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
                  > > >
                  > > > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces
                  > > had been
                  > > > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then
                  > > sanded all the
                  > > > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
                  > > >
                  > > > -Anthony
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful
                  > > photo search features.
                  > > http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTEuJFLA kXINGLtAMJDmcEuH KJ6HThLgaDkfOpW8 Ek7hiwG59C7hGg/
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Craig Schulze
                  I used Zolatone and clear coated it on my airplane. I also use the cheap spray can stuff on another airplane that you can get at the hardware store. It has
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 7 8:14 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I used Zolatone and clear coated it on my airplane. I also use the cheap
                    spray can stuff on another airplane that you can get at the hardware store.
                    It has the same speckled finish and is just as good. Just be sure to clear
                    it with a good clear coat.



                    Craig

                    N73s



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: lancair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lancair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    David Standish
                    Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 7:30 PM
                    To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Lancair] Re: how do you finish the wheel well?



                    The gray fuel sealer supplied by lancair has been very durable in my wheel
                    wells and easy to clean. I put it everywhere 5606 might leak. You need to
                    prep the area just as you would the tanks.

                    http://www.aerocraf
                    <http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=9700-1G&ReturnUrl=Categori
                    es.aspx?Category=992b7b06-e01b-4918-bb0c-79343cdb7869>
                    tparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=9700-1G&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=992
                    b7b06-e01b-4918-bb0c-79343cdb7869

                    David

                    --- In lancair@yahoogroups <mailto:lancair%40yahoogroups.com> .com, Dan
                    DeNeal <rv6apilot@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Do you paint it or expoy it (left over from fuel tank)? What have you guys
                    done?
                    > Dan
                    >
                    > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Santa Barbara Executive Jet <flysbej@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Santa Barbara Executive Jet <flysbej@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
                    > To: lancair@yahoogroups <mailto:lancair%40yahoogroups.com> .com
                    > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 2:54 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Get ready for some fun...... It took more time on micro finish than
                    building the airplane.
                    > If was doing it over I'd just micro the major problem areas and get them
                    close to fair. Then prime the entire airframe with a fill primer. Sand...Do
                    any final additional fill...reprime and wetsand. Any small stuff that was
                    needed or pinholes Id use a spot filler after it was done.
                    >
                    > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, galaxyone@juno. com <Galaxyone@juno. com> wrote:
                    >
                    > > From: galaxyone@juno. com <Galaxyone@juno. com>
                    > > Subject: Re: [Lancair] how much "fill" is too much fill
                    > > To: lancair@yahoogroups .com
                    > > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:09 PM
                    > > Mike is right, micro does have some problems. I should have
                    > > added earlier that the micro needs to be very dry to make it
                    > > a light weigh filler. To use it that way first brush the
                    > > depression with epoxy then wipe as much as possible off. If
                    > > the micro is too dry to spread and feather out you can add
                    > > some alcohol to it to thin it out and it spreads quite well.
                    > > Henry
                    > >
                    > > -- mikeeasley <mikeeasley@aol. com> wrote:
                    > > Flox is cotton fibers and is like a brick when it hardens.
                    > > Micro works well for about 90% of the contouring, then
                    > > it's easier to work with a primer-surfacer. Micro
                    > > always seems to have some voids and pinholes and it
                    > > doesn't feather out very well. So I would recommend
                    > > getting your contouring close with micro, then go to a
                    > > primer-surfacer like the WLS Lancair sells, or use a local
                    > > automotive paint shop to purchase a good quality primer
                    > > surfacer. I would use any primer that's not catalyzed
                    > > (two part). Any areas that have a thick micro fill,
                    > > it's a good idea to do a 1 BID layup over the body work
                    > > to prevent cracking later on, you can use a lighter weight
                    > > fabric for the layup.
                    > >
                    > > When it comes to Lancair bodywork, there are probably as
                    > > many opinions as there are people doing it.
                    > >
                    > > Mike Easley
                    > > Colorado Springs
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > In a message dated 02/28/09 10:18:44 Mountain Standard
                    > > Time, cassutt@windstream. net writes:
                    > > Anthony,
                    > >
                    > > Your terminology is incorrect. "Micro" is the
                    > > term used for the sandable filler. Micro is very small glass
                    > > beads mixed with the epoxy and Flox is chopped glass fiber
                    > > used for more structural applications. You don't want to
                    > > have to sand flox if you don't have to, kind of hard.
                    > > And yes most all joints need to be completely covered and
                    > > sanded to the contour you want for a desirable finish. Paint
                    > > will not hide anything, it only shows everybody how poor
                    > > your bodywork was, only shiner.
                    > >
                    > > Eric D
                    > > 360 SB
                    > >
                    > > ---- Anthony <cdnpilot2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    > > > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night..
                    > > pictures that I myself
                    > > > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking
                    > > at that specifically
                    > > > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of
                    > > them were smooth
                    > > > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to
                    > > how much flox
                    > > > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the
                    > > skins. I have the carbon
                    > > > larger tail and although she looks true and straight,
                    > > I fear that some
                    > > > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor,
                    > > will show once I
                    > > > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
                    > > >
                    > > > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces
                    > > had been
                    > > > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then
                    > > sanded all the
                    > > > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
                    > > >
                    > > > -Anthony
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful
                    > > photo search features.
                    > > http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTEuJFLA
                    kXINGLtAMJDmcEuH KJ6HThLgaDkfOpW8 Ek7hiwG59C7hGg/
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Standish
                    I don t think I spent as much time filling and sanding as I did in construction but it sure seemed like it. It is a big job to get it right. I used superfill
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 7 8:27 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I don't think I spent as much time filling and sanding as I did in construction
                      but it sure seemed like it. It is a big job to get it right. I used
                      "superfill" with good results but I found that it needed to cure 2 or 3 days
                      before it could be sanded easily without immediately gumming the sand paper. I
                      worked several areas sequentially so I could be sanding while recently filled
                      areas cured. I then primed with WLS primer. The WLS is lighter in color where
                      it has been sanded so it acts as a guidecoat to reveal low spots in the surface.
                      Put on some music you can sand to because you will be at it a long time. Use 3M
                      green board it is more expensive but it is worth it. Those dense foam floor
                      mats they sell at Home Depot can be cut into any shape sanding block you need
                      and you can glue layers together to make them stiff but still flexible. I would
                      avoid power tools so you don't accidentally sand into structure. DO NOT let
                      anyone help that doesn't know what you are trying to accomplish and has not done
                      this before (not that you are likely to get any volunteers). I often referred
                      to my shop as the "Little Red Hen Airplane Factory" especially during this
                      phase.

                      http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/superfil.php


                      http://carbonflier.home.bresnan.net/finish.html

                      David













                      --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I myself
                      > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that specifically
                      > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were smooth
                      > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak). I am curious as to how much flox
                      > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
                      > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that some
                      > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show once I
                      > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
                      >
                      > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
                      > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all the
                      > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
                      >
                      > -Anthony
                      >
                    • Dan DeNeal
                      What is WLS primer? ... From: David Standish Subject: [Lancair] Re: how much fill is too much fill To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 8 4:53 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        What is WLS primer?

                        --- On Sat, 3/7/09, David Standish <carbonflier@...> wrote:

                        From: David Standish <carbonflier@...>
                        Subject: [Lancair] Re: how much "fill" is too much fill
                        To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 10:06 PM






                        I don't think I spent as much time filling and sanding as I did in construction but it sure seemed like it. It is a big job to get it right. I used "superfill" with good results but I found that it needed to cure 2 or 3 days before it could be sanded easily without immediately gumming the sand paper. I worked several areas sequentially so I could be sanding while recently filled areas cured. I then primed with WLS primer. The WLS is lighter in color where it has been sanded so it acts as a guidecoat to reveal low spots in the surface. Put on some music you can sand to because you will be at it a long time. Use 3M green board it is more expensive but it is worth it. Those dense foam floor mats they sell at Home Depot can be cut into any shape sanding block you need and you can glue layers together to make them stiff but still flexible. I would avoid power tools so you don't accidentally sand into structure. DO NOT let anyone help that doesn't know what
                        you are trying to accomplish and has not done this before (not that you are likely to get any volunteers). I often referred to my shop as the "Little Red Hen Airplane Factory" especially during this phase.

                        http://www.aircraft spruce.com/ catalog/cmpages/ superfil. php

                        David

                        --- In lancair@yahoogroups .com, "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I myself
                        > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that specifically
                        > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were smooth
                        > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to how much flox
                        > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
                        > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that some
                        > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show once I
                        > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
                        >
                        > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
                        > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all the
                        > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
                        >
                        > -Anthony
                        >



















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Brian Alley
                        WLS is a high solids epoxy primer. All Lancairs end up painted in some type of urethane so why not make the transition in the body work stage? I have done 4
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 8 9:05 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          WLS is a high solids epoxy primer.
                          All Lancairs end up painted in some
                          type of urethane so why not make
                          the transition in the body work stage?
                          I have done 4 lancair's using Loehle
                          Aero Coatings u/v filler primer (black/
                          white) with excellent results. It cures
                          shiney so it does an excellent job as
                          a guide coat. It's sandable an hour
                          after it is sprayed saving several days
                          compared to WLS at 24 hours minimum.


                          Sent from my iPhone
                          Brian Alley


                          On Mar 8, 2009, at 7:53 AM, Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@...> wrote:

                          What is WLS primer?

                          --- On Sat, 3/7/09, David Standish <carbonflier@...> wrote:

                          From: David Standish <carbonflier@...>
                          Subject: [Lancair] Re: how much "fill" is too much fill
                          To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 10:06 PM

                          I don't think I spent as much time filling and sanding as I did in construction but it sure seemed like it. It is a big job to get it right. I used "superfill" with good results but I found that it needed to cure 2 or 3 days before it could be sanded easily without immediately gumming the sand paper. I worked several areas sequentially so I could be sanding while recently filled areas cured. I then primed with WLS primer. The WLS is lighter in color where it has been sanded so it acts as a guidecoat to reveal low spots in the surface. Put on some music you can sand to because you will be at it a long time. Use 3M green board it is more expensive but it is worth it. Those dense foam floor mats they sell at Home Depot can be cut into any shape sanding block you need and you can glue layers together to make them stiff but still flexible. I would avoid power tools so you don't accidentally sand into structure. DO NOT let anyone help that doesn't know what
                          you are trying to accomplish and has not done this before (not that you are likely to get any volunteers). I often referred to my shop as the "Little Red Hen Airplane Factory" especially during this phase.

                          http://www.aircraft spruce.com/ catalog/cmpages/ superfil. php

                          David

                          --- In lancair@yahoogroups .com, "Anthony" <cdnpilot2002@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I was looking at pics of lancairs last night.. pictures that I myself
                          > took while in oshkosh. Although i wasn't looking at that specifically
                          > when I took the pictures, I recall pretty much all of them were smooth
                          > (no dips in the skin so-to-speak) . I am curious as to how much flox
                          > was used to fill in the "valleys" on the skins. I have the carbon
                          > larger tail and although she looks true and straight, I fear that some
                          > valleys that are there now, although extremely minor, will show once I
                          > prime and paint. So do I get rid of them?
                          >
                          > I ask cause some photos LOOK like the tail surfaces had been
                          > completely covered with a half inch of flox and then sanded all the
                          > way back down to the skin (in other words PERFECTION).
                          >
                          > -Anthony
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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