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nose gear free fall 320, not working

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  • Joseph Malsack
    Hello, I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into position on my lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it does not ge
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 2, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello,

      I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into position on my
      lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it does not ge far
      enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.

      Joe.


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    • ajpcps
      I take it from your post that the gear retracts AFT (i.e. the wheel swings towards the tail.)? If so there are two options. Add or increase the spring forces
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 3, 2006
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        I take it from your post that the gear retracts AFT (i.e. the wheel
        swings towards the tail.)?

        If so there are two options. Add or increase the spring forces on
        your bungee to force the gear down against the wind forces. The
        second option is to always power the gear down
        hydraulically/mechanically.

        Because of these issues, commercial jets almost always have the nose
        gear retract forward. Smaller airplanes sometimes can't because it
        would give a very short wheelbase. In these cases, adequate spring
        forces are needed to force the gear forward against the airstream or
        power has to be applied. Sometimes a small hand operated hydraulic
        pump is placed in the airplane for emergency gear extension. You
        have to adjust the plumbing to isolate the "emergency" system from
        the normal system.

        (How do I know this? I design landing gear systems for a living.)




        --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into
        position on my
        > lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it
        does not ge far
        > enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.
        >
        > Joe.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
        30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Carl Moro
        I think the nose gear should lock at 110kts and below what airspeed have you been trying to deploy it at? Scott Joseph Malsack wrote:
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 3, 2006
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          I think the nose gear should lock at 110kts and below what airspeed have you been trying to deploy it at?

          Scott

          Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
          Hello,

          I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into position on my
          lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it does not ge far
          enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.

          Joe.


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        • Craig
          The problem you are having is because the gas strut for the nose gear may be old and not have the power to overcome the wind resistance. Try replacing that
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 3, 2006
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            The problem you are having is because the gas strut for the nose gear may be
            old and not have the power to overcome the wind resistance. Try replacing
            that first.

            Craig
            -----Original Message-----
            From: lancair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lancair@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
            ajpcps
            Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:38 AM
            To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Lancair] Re: nose gear free fall 320, not working


            I take it from your post that the gear retracts AFT (i.e. the wheel
            swings towards the tail.)?

            If so there are two options. Add or increase the spring forces on
            your bungee to force the gear down against the wind forces. The
            second option is to always power the gear down
            hydraulically/mechanically.

            Because of these issues, commercial jets almost always have the nose
            gear retract forward. Smaller airplanes sometimes can't because it
            would give a very short wheelbase. In these cases, adequate spring
            forces are needed to force the gear forward against the airstream or
            power has to be applied. Sometimes a small hand operated hydraulic
            pump is placed in the airplane for emergency gear extension. You
            have to adjust the plumbing to isolate the "emergency" system from
            the normal system.

            (How do I know this? I design landing gear systems for a living.)




            --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello,
            >
            > I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into
            position on my
            > lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it
            does not ge far
            > enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.
            >
            > Joe.
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
            30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >






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          • Christopher Skelt
            Joe, A 320 or 360 based at one of my local airfields had the nose gear collapse after landing with the expected damage to the prop engine etc. The A&P doing
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 3, 2006
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              Joe,
              A 320 or 360 based at one of my local airfields had the nose gear collapse after landing with the expected damage to the prop engine etc. The A&P doing the repair showed me the damage and had a number of comments...
              One of the hoses in the wheel well was a bit short and may have made full extension more difficult to achieve. Fair comment. I didn't see the offending article.
              Many light aricraft have strong extension springs in the hydraulic cylinders. OK, but no room in the Lancair wheel well.
              The gas strut may have weakened, but in any case the design is such that the mechanical advantage it applies to the over-center link is minimal. He was trying to find or thinking of desgning a hinge-like spring to place in the crook of the overcenter link and the nose gear leg. The angle between the two parts doesn't change much during deployment, and is most acute and would exert most force as the gear leg approaches vertical and feels the biggest wind loads.
              If someone has any ideas for design I think we would be two potential customers.

              Regards, Chris.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Craig
              To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: 03/04/2006 18:19:28
              Subject: RE: [Lancair] Re: nose gear free fall 320, not working


              The problem you are having is because the gas strut for the nose gear may be
              old and not have the power to overcome the wind resistance. Try replacing
              that first.

              Craig
              -----Original Message-----
              From: lancair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lancair@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
              ajpcps
              Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:38 AM
              To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Lancair] Re: nose gear free fall 320, not working


              I take it from your post that the gear retracts AFT (i.e. the wheel
              swings towards the tail.)?

              If so there are two options. Add or increase the spring forces on
              your bungee to force the gear down against the wind forces. The
              second option is to always power the gear down
              hydraulically/mechanically.

              Because of these issues, commercial jets almost always have the nose
              gear retract forward. Smaller airplanes sometimes can't because it
              would give a very short wheelbase. In these cases, adequate spring
              forces are needed to force the gear forward against the airstream or
              power has to be applied. Sometimes a small hand operated hydraulic
              pump is placed in the airplane for emergency gear extension. You
              have to adjust the plumbing to isolate the "emergency" system from
              the normal system.

              (How do I know this? I design landing gear systems for a living.)




              --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello,
              >
              > I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into
              position on my
              > lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it
              does not ge far
              > enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.
              >
              > Joe.
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
              30+ countries) for 2�/min or less.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






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            • Joseph Malsack
              Craig, already did that, it is brand new. the old one failed the ground test. Joe. Craig wrote: The problem you are having is because the
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 7, 2006
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                Craig,

                already did that, it is brand new. the old one failed the ground test.

                Joe.

                Craig <craig@...> wrote:
                The problem you are having is because the gas strut for the nose gear may be
                old and not have the power to overcome the wind resistance. Try replacing
                that first.

                Craig
                -----Original Message-----
                From: lancair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lancair@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                ajpcps
                Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:38 AM
                To: lancair@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Lancair] Re: nose gear free fall 320, not working


                I take it from your post that the gear retracts AFT (i.e. the wheel
                swings towards the tail.)?

                If so there are two options. Add or increase the spring forces on
                your bungee to force the gear down against the wind forces. The
                second option is to always power the gear down
                hydraulically/mechanically.

                Because of these issues, commercial jets almost always have the nose
                gear retract forward. Smaller airplanes sometimes can't because it
                would give a very short wheelbase. In these cases, adequate spring
                forces are needed to force the gear forward against the airstream or
                power has to be applied. Sometimes a small hand operated hydraulic
                pump is placed in the airplane for emergency gear extension. You
                have to adjust the plumbing to isolate the "emergency" system from
                the normal system.

                (How do I know this? I design landing gear systems for a living.)




                --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello,
                >
                > I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into
                position on my
                > lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it
                does not ge far
                > enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.
                >
                > Joe.
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
                30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >






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              • Joseph Malsack
                Carl Moro, I have flown all the way down to 70 knots and it still will not lock. I have replaced the gas strut and lubed all linkages. still does not lock at
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 7, 2006
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                  Carl Moro,

                  I have flown all the way down to 70 knots and it still will not lock.
                  I have replaced the gas strut and lubed all linkages.

                  still does not lock at airspeed.

                  Joe

                  Carl Moro <alllspam@...> wrote:
                  I think the nose gear should lock at 110kts and below what airspeed have you been trying to deploy it at?

                  Scott

                  Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
                  Hello,

                  I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into position on my
                  lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it does not ge far
                  enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.

                  Joe.


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                • Joseph Malsack
                  No, the landing gear goes from the tail forward. I have replaced the gas strut that is to assist pushing it down. I have tried different and slower airspeeds
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 7, 2006
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                    No, the landing gear goes from the tail forward. I have replaced the gas strut that
                    is to assist pushing it down. I have tried different and slower airspeeds to no avail.
                    lubing and checking all linkages and joints did not help.

                    Joe

                    ajpcps <ajpcps@...> wrote:
                    I take it from your post that the gear retracts AFT (i.e. the wheel
                    swings towards the tail.)?

                    If so there are two options. Add or increase the spring forces on
                    your bungee to force the gear down against the wind forces. The
                    second option is to always power the gear down
                    hydraulically/mechanically.

                    Because of these issues, commercial jets almost always have the nose
                    gear retract forward. Smaller airplanes sometimes can't because it
                    would give a very short wheelbase. In these cases, adequate spring
                    forces are needed to force the gear forward against the airstream or
                    power has to be applied. Sometimes a small hand operated hydraulic
                    pump is placed in the airplane for emergency gear extension. You
                    have to adjust the plumbing to isolate the "emergency" system from
                    the normal system.

                    (How do I know this? I design landing gear systems for a living.)




                    --- In lancair@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello,
                    >
                    > I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into
                    position on my
                    > lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it
                    does not ge far
                    > enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.
                    >
                    > Joe.
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
                    30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >






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                  • Chris Zavatson
                    Joe, Two things to look for. 1. Is there any binding in the linkages at any point in their travel? With the gas strut and hydraulic cylinder disconnected
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 10, 2006
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                      Joe,
                      Two things to look for.
                      1. Is there any binding in the linkages at any point in their travel? With the gas strut and hydraulic cylinder disconnected make sure the over center linkage can freely slide in between the welded tabs on the nose gear strut. Try this at several positions from extended to fully retracted.
                      2. Check how much compression is being placed on the nose gear pivot bearings. If there is too much pressure, the extra drag in the bearings will make free fall more difficult. It is a fine line between no play and being too tight. I eventually got rid of the steel tube spacer and replaced it with an adjustable length spacer. ( http://www.n91cz.com/StrutSpacer/strut%20spacer.htm )This made fine tuning of the play/friction in the nose gear pivot a 15 second job.
                      good luck,

                      Chris Zavatson
                      www.N91CZ.com

                      Joseph Malsack <n320ja1@...> wrote:
                      Hello,

                      I am having problems getting the nose wheel to free fall into position on my
                      lancair 320. It always passes on the ground, but in the air it does not ge far
                      enough forward to lock. Any ideas to help.

                      Joe.


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