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Re: inwisti

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  • Erestel
    [Complete text of original message snipped. Please don t quote unnecessarily. Carl] Thanks for the cross-reference to VT/34. Very interesting ... And this
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 12 4:10 AM
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      [Complete text of original message snipped. Please don't quote unnecessarily.
      Carl]

      Thanks for the cross-reference to VT/34. Very interesting ...
      And this interpretation leads me to a similar one which would involve
      hypothesis 2) as well :
      _in-_ <-> mind-mood
      _-wisti_ <-> changes (connected with WIS- > _vista_ air ?)

      Indeed we may expect that Tolkien gives a gloss like 'mind-mood' to
      explain that we are speeking not exactly of what is usually
      understood by 'mind' in english, but of something between 'mind'
      and 'mood' ... By the way the Etymologies gives _indo_ == heart,
      *mood* [HOME V/361].

      2) has my preference (órenya quetë nin ... ;)) but I am not entirely
      sure.

      Jerome
    • Arden R. Smith
      It seems to me that the most likely etymology for _inwisti_ would derive _wisti_ from some latter-day counterpart of the QL root GWIDI- (PE12:103), whence
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 12 11:43 PM
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        It seems to me that the most likely etymology for _inwisti_ would
        derive _wisti_ from some latter-day counterpart of the QL root GWIDI-
        (PE12:103), whence Qenya _'wiste_ 'weft', as well as _'Wirilóme_
        'Gloomweaver', a name of the Great Spider. If this is the case, then
        the literal meaning of _inwisti_ might be something like
        *'mind-weaving(s)' or *'the fabric of the mind'.

        --
        *********************************************************************
        Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

        Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
        --Elvish proverb
        *********************************************************************
      • Beregond. Anders Stenström
        ... This argument has some force, yet 1) seems to me the natural way to read the sentence. I therefore suppose the plurality (if such it is) of _inwisti_ is a
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 15 2:29 PM
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          Erestel wrote:

          > "With such changes of 'mind-mood' or inwisti their lámatyáver might
          > also change." [Laws & Customs - Of Naming]
          >
          > I can see two hypothesis :
          > 1) _inwisti_ refers to 'mind-mood'
          > 2) _inwisti_ refers to the *changes* of 'mind-mood'
          >
          > _inwisti_ seems to be in the plural, . . . So I
          > would tend to 2)

          This argument has some force, yet 1) seems to me the natural
          way to read the sentence. I therefore suppose the plurality (if
          such it is) of _inwisti_ is a constructio ad sensum, due to the several
          moods implied by the occurrence of changes.

          As for the etymology of *_inwiste_, my simple guess is
          *_inwe_ + *_iste_, where *_inwe_ would be a relative to _indo_
          'mind', and *_iste_ the formal and semantic equivalent to Gnomish
          _ist_ "feeling, sensation. -- notion" (GL (in PE XI)).

          Meneg suilaid,

          Beregond
        • gentlebeldin
          Surprisingly, there s still another interpretation: Root ING- + abstract suffix _we_ + root IS-, first/foremost knowledge . I m aware I have to supply quite
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 23 11:20 PM
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            Surprisingly, there's still another interpretation:

            Root ING- + abstract suffix _we_ + root IS-, "first/foremost
            knowledge".

            I'm aware I have to supply quite some evidence for my strange
            statement:

            1. _Inwe_ is a variant of the name _Ingwe_, the first high-king of
            the Eldalie (LR, Index "Inwe" and "Ingwe"). There is at least one
            other similar derivation, _Inwir_, the house of Ingwe in Lost Tales.
            2. The root IS- showed up as _ist-_ in all known derivations (Etym,
            entry IS-).

            I see one problem: the glosses "knowledge" and "(mind-)mood" seem to
            be incompatible. But that may be just us: "knowledge" needs not to be
            restricted to rationality in other cultures, or in Tolkien's
            understanding, and the fact that he used the same element _ist_
            for "feeling, sensation" in Gnomish (cf. Beregond's message 105)
            could be a third evidence in favor of my hypothesis.

            Hans
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