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Re: Translations of _orthanc_

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  • David Kiltz
    ... More so, perhaps, because there is _gûr_ (VT41;11) heart, inner mind , said (loc. cit.) to derive from CE _3ôrê_. Of course, Tolkien s idea about the
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 22, 2006
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      On 22.04.2006, at 20:48, varavilindo wrote:

      > Whether we could add the new word meanings (e. g.
      > *_or_ "heart") to our Sindarin vocabulary is questionable.

      More so, perhaps, because there is _gûr_ (VT41;11) 'heart, inner
      mind', said (loc. cit.) to derive from CE _3ôrê_. Of course,
      Tolkien's idea about the derivation of Q _óre_ and the respective
      Sindarin form may have changed over time. In the times of _The
      Etymologies_, CE _3_ (i.e. a voiced velar fricative) is lost in later
      Noldorin. 'Stony heart' could also be a deliberate folk etymology by
      those well acquainted with Elvish, I think. Especially, maybe, because
      S _gûr_, Q _óre_ seem to refer not so much to the physical organ but
      to mental/emotional phenomena. Hence a 'rigid' or 'stony' heart could
      be seen as an allusion to the state of Saruman's _óre_ in the later days
      of his residence in Orthanc.

      David Kiltz
    • Beregond. Anders Stenstr�m
      ... For 234 read 243. The gloss forked-height in the unfinished index would (if that index had been completed and appeared in the book) have been a
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 23, 2006
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        Philipp Marquart wrote:

        > It is said that _orthanc_ has two major meanings (in two different
        > tounges): in "elvish" (Sindarin) "stony heart, [?tormented] Hills"
        > (VIII:35), "Stone Fangs" (VIII:35) and lastly "forked-Height" (RC:
        > 234)

        For 234 read 243. The gloss "forked-height" in the unfinished index
        would (if that index had been completed and appeared in the book) have
        been a complement to the main text's "Mount Fang".

        > The underlying etymology of the compound _or-thanc_ with translation
        > "forked-Height" may be as follows:
        >
        > _or_: derived from base ORO- (V:379) giving N. _or_ prep. above;
        > prefix _or-_ as in _orchall, orchel_ "superior, eminent"

        The element _or_ occurs in Sindarin with the sense 'height,
        mountain' also in (at least) _Erebor_.

        Suilad,

        Beregond
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