- While doing some research in _The Treason of Isengard_ recently I came across the Noldorin form _Mornvenniath_, a name of the Black Mountains appearing in aMessage 1 of 4 , Jul 25, 2005View SourceWhile doing some research in _The Treason of Isengard_
recently I came across the Noldorin form _Mornvenniath_,
a name of the Black Mountains appearing in a one-page
manuscript apparently dating to the early 1940s (VII:124).
The Black Mountains (also called _Eredvyrn_ << _Ered
Myrn_) were the precursors of the later White Mountains
The first element in _Mornvenniath_ is of course N. _morn_
'black' (V:373, VT45:35), and _-venn-_ must be N. _ment_
'point' (ibid.) with lenition of initial _m_ > _v_, and final _nt_ >
_nn_ in medial position (cp. N. _pent_ 'tale', _pennas_
'history', V:366). It's interesting to see another instance of
N. _ment_ crop up outside of the _Etymologies_ (no such
luck yet for the Qenya cognate _mente_, so far as I know).
The final element _-iath_ can perhaps be identified with
later S. _iâth_ 'fence', as in _Doriath, Dor Iâth_ 'Land of the
Fence' (XI:370) and probably _Echoriath_ 'the Encircling
Mountains' (S:138) -- hence _Mornvenniath_ *'Fence of
Black Peaks' -- unless we are to suppose that this is the
collective pl. ending _-iath_ seen in such forms as _giliath_
(sg. _geil_ 'star'; V:358, VT45:15), though this variant of
_-ath_ is otherwise only attested with nouns having _i_ as
the original stem vowel.
I Googled "Mornvenniath" to see if this word had been
analyzed on any of the online forums, and got bupkis --
no hits at all. Apparently _Mornvenniath_ is a sort of
"forgotten word", excluded from the idiosyncratic canons
of the neo-Elvish practitioners (despite the fact that it
provides confirmation of the enduring existence of N.
_ment_), and not yet analyzed by scholars. There are a lot
of these forgotten words to be found in "The History of
Middle-earth" volumes, very many of them Noldorin --
e.g., _Hithdilias_ 'Misty Mountains', which shares the
same ms. page as _Mornvenniath_; _Cinderion_ 'Hither
Lands' (V:405); _Eges-sirion_ 'Mouths of Sirion' (V:407);
_Thanador_, _Ulthanador_, _Borthendor_, _Orothan[ador]_,
all early names of _Rohan_ (VI:434, n. 22), etc.
Perhaps we might begin pointing out and discussing
these neglected forms on this list?
-- Patrick H. Wynne
- ... Good catch. _Mornvenniath_ is all the more interesting because it is one of the few attestations of the element _morn_Message 2 of 4 , Jul 25, 2005View SourceOn 25.07.2005, at 14:51, Patrick H. Wynne wrote:
> While doing some research in _The Treason of Isengard_Good catch. _Mornvenniath_ is all the more interesting
> recently I came across the Noldorin form _Mornvenniath_,
because it is one of the few attestations of the element
_morn_ < _*mornâ_ in compounds (with the original _n_
preserved). Other forms are _Mornennyn_ (VIII:112-13, 127)
and _Mornedhel_ (XI:377 et al.). Possibly other forms belong
here too, as Sindarin _Morben_ (cf. XI:362) suggests: "... the
form _Morben_ (without affection of the _o_) shows either an
alternation to _*mora-_ for _mori-_, after _*kala-_, or more
probably substitution of S _morn-_ from _*mornâ_, the usual
S adjectival form."
This gives us some interesting clues. Apparently, whether the
first element is _mori/a-_ or _morn-_, the second element is
lenited, as exemplified in the above words as well as in _Morgoth_
and _Morgai_ (with second elements _coth_ (KOTH-) and _cai_
< _*kegyâ_ (UT:282) respectively).
The _Etymologies_ state that the second element of _Morgoth_
"may also contain GOTH".
Some explained the lack of lenition in _Mormegil_ by deriving
it from *_Morn-megil_. The above evidence, however, militates
against such an interpretation. It seems best to see _Mormegil_
as an adaption of Q. _Mormakil_ into Sindarin.
Still, the question remains why, if _Morben_ really contains the
element _morn-_, the _n_ is dropped here (and potentially in
other words), but not in _Mornvenniath_. The _n_ is clearly
allowed to stand before a vowel. A cluster of three consonants
would be a prima facie reason for its loss. If we don't want to
simply assume inconsistencies in Tolkien's concept of lenitions
we might seek an answer in conditioned sound change that would,
e.g., allow the _n_ to stand if the third consonant wasn't a stop.
Lastly, a word on _Mordor_ and _Morgul_. These two words, it is
sometimes argued, contain no lenition and thus defy the assumption
that _mori/a-_ and _morn-_ always lenite. Yet, the original forms
are NDOR- and ÑGOL-, anlauting with nasalized stops, which seems
enough to explain the missing lenition. _Morgul_ is explicitly given
as _mor(n)gul_ in the _Etymologies_ s.r. ÑGOL-. In HoME VIII we
encounter a form _Morghul_. Obviously, relative chronology plays
a role here, and Tolkien might have felt at some point that the
synchronic basis of derivation was taken as _gûl_ rather than
(historically "correct") _*ngûl/ngôl_. It should be noted, however,
that Tolkien reverted to or maintained _Morgul_ in every instance.
- ... Letter 347, paragraph 7: In S. initial _g_ was retained in composition, where a contact _n_ + _g_ occurred. So _born_ hot, red + _gil_ to _borñgil_;Message 3 of 4 , Jul 25, 2005View SourceDavid Kiltz wrote:
> Lastly, a word on _Mordor_ and _Morgul_. These two words, it isLetter 347, paragraph 7: "In S. initial _g_ was retained in
> sometimes argued, contain no lenition and thus defy the assumption
> that _mori/a-_ and _morn-_ always lenite.
composition, where a contact _n_ + _g_ occurred. So _born_ 'hot,
red' + _gil_ to _borñgil_; _morn_ 'black' + _dor_ to _morñdor_;
the triconsonantal group then being reduced to _rg_, _rd_."
- ... At the end of this same letter (written in 1972), Tolkien provides another example of retention of initial D in composition when a contact N + D occurs. HeMessage 4 of 4 , Jul 26, 2005View Source--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Beregond. Anders
Stenström" <beregond@u...> wrote:
> Letter 347, paragraph 7: "In S. initial _g_ was retained inAt the end of this same letter (written in 1972), Tolkien provides
> composition, where a contact _n_ + _g_ occurred. So _born_
> 'hot, red' + _gil_ to _borñgil_; _morn_ 'black' + _dor_ to
> _morñdor_; the triconsonantal group then being reduced
> to _rg_, _rd_."
another example of retention of initial D in composition when
a contact N + D occurs. He notes that _Arnor_ should properly be
_Ardor_, though he wished to avoid the latter form (for obvious
reasons, _ardor_ in English meaning 'enthusiasm, passion'):
"But it can now only (though reasonably) be explained after
invention as due to a blending of Q. _arnanóre_ / _arnanor_
with S. _arn(a)dor_ > _ardor_" (L:428).
-- Patrick H. Wynne