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_Singollo_ - what a language is it?

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  • galadhorn
    Reading The Silmarillion you must have seen the curious form of Elu Thingol s (or Elu-thingol s) name: Elwë _Singollo_. Have you ever tried to guess from
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 14, 2004
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      Reading "The Silmarillion" you must have seen the curious form of
      Elu Thingol's (or Elu-thingol's) name: Elwë _Singollo_. Have you
      ever tried to guess from which language this form comes?

      It is not a Quenya name for in Quenya the high king of Beleriand
      was named Elwë _Thindikollo_, cf. XII 337 (in the Noldorin dialect
      of Quenya _Sindicollo_, cf. X:217, X:385). It is not Sindarin because in
      Sindarin the king's name is Elu _Thingol_. It also cannot be a Common
      Telerin or Archaic Sindarin form. Why? Because in no language save
      Noldorin Quenya does the Common Eldarin /*th-/ > /s-/ (see "The
      Shibboleth of Fëanor in XII). The only language in which this shift
      occurred was the Noldorin dialect of Quenya. What does it mean?

      In my opinion the name _Singollo_ is the phonetic adaptation of the
      Sindarin name _Thingol_ by the Exiled Noldor using Quenya. The
      form _singollo_ does not mean anything in Quenya ('greymantle' is
      in Noldorin Quenya _sindicollo_). It simply sounds as if the Noldor
      exiled to Middle-earth adapted the name _Thingol_ into their language
      without translating it according to its etymology.

      I have found the opinion that the name _Singollo_ comes from the
      early period of Sindarin. Now I have tried to indicate that the truth
      could be quite different.

      -- Ryszard Derdzinski
    • Andreas Johansson
      ... [snip] It could also simply be a contraction of _Sindicollo_; indeed, this explanation has been advanced on Elfling. But seeing it as a half-Quenyaization
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 14, 2004
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        Quoting galadhorn <galadhorn@...>:

        > Reading "The Silmarillion" you must have seen the curious form of
        > Elu Thingol's (or Elu-thingol's) name: Elwë _Singollo_. Have you
        > ever tried to guess from which language this form comes?
        [snip]

        It could also simply be a contraction of _Sindicollo_; indeed, this
        explanation has been advanced on Elfling.

        But seeing it as a half-Quenyaization of Thingol seems attractive.

        -- Andreas

        [If _Singollo_ is simply a contraction of _Sindicollo_, then we
        must wonder why, e.g., Fingon's Quenya name _Findekáno_
        (XII:345) did not similarly contract to **_Fingáno_? At the very
        least, it seems probable that if _Singollo_ is in fact a contraction
        of _Sindicollo_, it was not due to normal phonological processes
        in Quenya, but was a later, Exilic modification of the original
        Quenya form under the influence of S. _Thingol_. -- PHW]
      • Andreas Johansson
        ... I don t think anyone is saying that _Sindicollo_ _Singollo_ was a *regular* development. It does not seem like Quenya compounds normally underwent such
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 14, 2004
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          Quoting Patrick H. Wynne:

          > [If _Singollo_ is simply a contraction of _Sindicollo_, then we
          > must wonder why, e.g., Fingon's Quenya name _Findekáno_
          > (XII:345) did not similarly contract to **_Fingáno_? At the very
          > least, it seems probable that if _Singollo_ is in fact a contraction
          > of _Sindicollo_, it was not due to normal phonological processes
          > in Quenya, but was a later, Exilic modification of the original
          > Quenya form under the influence of S. _Thingol_. -- PHW]

          I don't think anyone is saying that _Sindicollo_>_Singollo_ was a
          *regular* development. It does not seem like Quenya compounds
          normally underwent such contractions.

          The possibility exists that the variant Quenya forms represent
          various ideas about the exact derivation of Sindarin (Noldorin)
          _Thingol_. In _Etym._, the name is referred to THIN and ÑGOL
          (with the meaning "grey-wise" rather than "greymantle"), which
          roots might every plausibly underlie a Qenya formation _Singollo_,
          although the exact derivation suggested under THIN, from
          Doriathrin _Thind_ (Q cognate _Sindo_) and _gol_ (Q cognate
          _nóle_), does not suggest it.

          Andreas

          [Nonetheless, Q. _Singollo_ is explicitly glossed 'Greymantle'
          in the later _Quenta Silmarillion_: "Elwë Singollo, which signifies
          Greymantle" (X:163). -- PHW]
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