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_indyalme_ (was Re: A few questions about _Etymologies_)

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  • Patrick H. Wynne
    ... ( ), ... It seems possible. Presumably Edouard is referring to the N- prefix cited in the A&C
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 15, 2004
      --- In message 737
      Edouard asked:

      > _Indyalme_ (VT46:3 s.v. ÑGAL-/ÑGÁLAM-) has no gloss.
      > Could it be an intensive form: *_ingyalmê_ > _indyalme_?

      It seems possible. Presumably Edouard is referring to the
      N- prefix cited in the A&C (VT45:36), which in Qenya yielded
      an intensive prefix that took a variety of forms dependent
      on the following consonant: _um_ before _p, q, v_ (this last
      yielding _umb_), _an_ before _t_, _iñ_ before _k, g_, etc.
      The historical derivation of _indyalme_ might therefore be
      from *_n.-ñgyalmê_ (in which _n._ represents syllabic
      _n_, i.e. _n_ with an underdot) > *_ñ.-ñgyalmê_ (with
      assimilation of _n._ > _ñ._) > *_iñ-ñgyalmê_ (with resolution
      of syllabic _ñ._ >_iñ_) >_indyalme_ (with fronting of the stop
      in a palatal environment).

      If Tolkien did intend a non-intensive/ intensive distinction
      between _yalme_ 'clamour' and _indyalme_, perhaps the
      latter referred to an extended, overwhelmingly chaotic
      din, the 'clamour' of an ongoing battle as opposed to, say, the
      clamour of horses entering a courtyard or pots dropped in
      the kitchen.

      A parallel might occur in the much-later text "The Shibboleth
      of Feanor", which cites the Common Eldarin stem _ñgol-,
      ñgôlo-_, "with or without syllabic _ñ_". In the derivatives
      cited, it appears that the forms beginning with _ing-_ from
      original syllabic _ñ._ were intensive. Thus (all from XII:360):

      _ingólemo_ 'one with very great knowledge, a "wizard"'
      (compare _ñolmo_ 'a wise person')

      _Ingole_ 'Science/Philosophy as a whole'
      (compare _ñolme_ 'a department of wisdom (science etc.)')

      _Ingoldo_ '_the_ Ñoldo, one eminent in the kindred'
      (as opposed to _Ñoldo_, which simply identifies a member
      of that kindred, with no implication of eminence.)

      Our only other parallel to _indyalme_ in _Etymologies_ is found
      in the entry for the base ÑGYÔ-, ÑGYON- 'grandchild, descendant',
      with Qenya derivative _indyo_ (== T. _endo_ and ON _ango_).
      Is this _indyo_ intensive, from *_n-ñgyô_? Since the base also
      means 'descendant', _indyo_ (probably 'grandson'; a deleted
      marginal note by the Etym._base YÔ, YÔN- gives Q _inyo_ 'grandson',
      with _inyo_ << _indyo_; VT46:23) might be viewed as intensive
      in pertaining to a descendant removed by at least two

      -- Patrick H. Wynne
    • laurifindil
      If _ninqitá-_ whiten has a causative suffix, which seems to be the case, why do we have _tulta-_ send for, fetch, summon (
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 16, 2004
        If _ninqitá-_ 'whiten' has a causative suffix, which seems to be
        the case, why do we have _tulta-_ 'send for, fetch, summon'
        (< *_tultâ-_ 'make come' < TUL- (cf. VT46:20) and not **_tultá-_?

        E. Kloczko

        [I would hesitate to call what we see in _ninqitá-_ a "suffix". Given
        the frequent and apparently free variation we see in prehistoric Eldarin
        forms between long and short vowels in word- and stem-final position
        (denoted by Tolkien as a macron with a breve over it), I would guess that
        the actual case is one of _selection_ of variant forms in _association_
        with distinguished meaning: thus, in this scenario, the long form was
        selected and associated with the causitive and/or inchoative sense (the
        gloss 'whiten' is itself ambiguous: it could mean "to cause something to
        become white" or the process of a thing itself becoming whiter), and the
        short for the intransitive/stative sense; and the length difference then
        retained _because_ it maintained the distinction in meaning. To what
        extent this selection formed a pattern in other cases is unclear. CFH]
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