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glaan, glan (and Re: _haeron_ -- a minor correction)

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  • hisweloke
    ... My mistake, of course, and RGEO:72 should also have applied, instead, to _haered_, as readers might have corrected by themselves. Thanks for, pointing this
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 13, 2004
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      Patrick H. Wynne wrote:

      > Didier Willis wrote:
      > > [...] by comparison with _haered_ (LotR Book II Ch. I) and _haeron_
      > > (RGEO:72).
      > For the sake of accuracy, note that the page reference given here
      > for _haeron_ is in error; the word actually occurs in XII:273 in _Dor
      > Haeron_, [...]

      My mistake, of course, and RGEO:72 should also have applied, instead,
      to _haered_, as readers might have corrected by themselves. Thanks for,
      pointing this error. I should also have noted that the association of
      this word with _hae_ or _haered_ is, of course, a guess, for a region
      made less accessible because of a river boundary and probably
      regarded as distant from Gondor, with respect to the closer part
      of Calenardhon. But it's not unusual for Elvish words to look alike
      in surface, as actually illustrated for _im_ "vale" in my message,
      so I should have been more cautious and noted that fact more
      carefully.

      In addition to my list, I could also have mentioned another
      interesting item from the A&C, on p. 13, regarding another
      entry of interest but not published in HoME V.

      Under the stem GALÁN "bright", we find N. _glan_ "clear" (first
      glossed as "daylight").

      This could perhaps be linked to _Curunír 'Lân_, an Elvish
      (sur)name for Saruman the White (UT:390). People had long
      deduced that _'lân_ could be a mutated adjective *_glân_,
      related to other derivatives of GAL/ÑAL -- but along with
      this hitherto unpublished entry, we could perhaps interpret
      it more precisely as "white, *(shining as bright light)".

      For the sake of completeness, note that this deduced word
      has an homonym, _glân_ "hem, border" (VT 42 p.8), also
      _glann, _gland_ "boundary", _glan-_ (ibid.).

      Didier.

      [The proposal that _'lân_ in _Curunír 'Lân_ 'Saruman the
      White' == N _glan_ 'clear' (<< 'daylight') in the A&C seems
      likely, especially in light of the fact that most of the words
      meaning 'white' in the IE languages come from the original
      notion of 'bright' -- e.g., Greek _leukós_ 'white' is cognate
      with Latin _lucere_ 'to shine', _lux_ 'light'. -- PHW]
    • hisweloke
      ... Further to Patrick s correction to my post, it actually seems the slip in my notes was more serious and that all references got switched in my message as
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 13, 2004
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        I wrote:

        > Previously published in XII:273 (PM), the word _Gwahaedir_
        > was there used as the name of the Palantiri in Sindarin/Noldorin.

        Further to Patrick's correction to my post, it actually seems
        the slip in my notes was more serious and that all references
        got switched in my message as submitted. The above should read
        "Previously published in XII:186 (PM)..."

        Sorry for the inconvenience :(

        Didier.
      • Pavel Iosad
        Hello, ... Which is not at all surprising, given its outstanding similarity with the Welsh word _glan_ clear, bright (where the vowel, incidentally, is long,
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 14, 2004
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          Hello,

          Dider Willis wrote:

          >Under the stem GALÁN "bright", we find N. _glan_ "clear"
          >(first glossed as "daylight").
          >
          >This could perhaps be linked to _Curunír 'Lân_, an
          >Elvish (sur)name for Saruman the White (UT:390). People
          >had long deduced that _'lân_ could be a mutated adjective *_glân_,

          Which is not at all surprising, given its outstanding
          similarity with the Welsh word _glan_ 'clear, bright'
          (where the vowel, incidentally, is long, which is
          concealed by Welsh orthographic convention).

          >related to other derivatives of GAL/ÑAL -- but along with
          >this hitherto unpublished entry, we could perhaps
          >interpret it more precisely as "white, *(shining as bright
          >light)".

          I agree. It must be pointed out that this association of
          these senses with this form must have followed Tolkien
          from very early on: cf. PE11:39, which has _glan_ 'clean,
          pure' (originally 'bright') and PE13:144, where we find
          _glann_ 'clean'; pl. _glainn_.

          Pavel
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