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Re: [Lambengolmor] Re: _hy_ in Quenya (and the IPA)

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  • Andreas Johansson
    ... That, or pronunciation varies from speaker to speaker and/or location to location. It s the kind of minor phonetic variation one expect to see abundantly
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 11, 2004
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      Quoting "Arden R. Smith" <erilaz@...>:

      > My point here is this: If *phoneticians* can't agree what sound
      > appears at the beginning of _hue_, then the distinction between these
      > two sounds must be so minuscule that it is of no practical
      > consequence.

      That, or pronunciation varies from speaker to speaker and/or location to
      location. It's the kind of minor phonetic variation one expect to see
      abundantly in a language of a few hundred million speakers.

      Andreas
    • David Kiltz
      On 11.01.2004, at 06:20, Arden R. Smith wrote: A.R.Smith says that William G. Moulton says in his _The Sounds of English and German_ (Chicago and London:
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 11, 2004
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        On 11.01.2004, at 06:20, Arden R. Smith wrote:

        A.R.Smith says that William G. Moulton
        says in his _The Sounds of English and German_ (Chicago
        and London: University of Chicago Press, 1962 that Modern Standard
        German [ç] sounds like the initial sound of _hue_ as pronounced by
        many Americans. Now there definitely is a difference between the RP
        _hue_ sound and the German _ich_ sound (_hue_ is slightly more forward)
        but it's a miniscule difference. Note the fact that English /ç/
        only occurs before /u/ word initially whereas German /ç/ never does.
        That may also add to the difference, thus, perhaps, making the
        difference between the sounds hardly more than a positional one. Still,
        all Germans I asked (including me) notice and make a clear distinction
        between English /ç/ and German /ç/ (and it is lab verifiable!).
        Still, I think it fair to settle on /ç/ for Quenya as Tolkien's
        examples can be approximations at times.

        > Maddieson regards [ç] as
        > an allophone of /x/ (in German).

        Just for the record: Not only the vocalic environment plays a role here
        but also morphemes. Cf. _Frauchen_ /frauçen/ vs. _rauchen_ /rauxen/.

        -David Kiltz
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