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Re: Q _ulundo_ < _ulgundô_ vs. _felya_ < *_felga_

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  • Lukas Novak
    ... I rather agree - I did not mean to imply where exactly the syllable boundary lies. ... Yes, but it seems that Q phonology avoids _w_ and _y_ glides
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 6, 2004
      Andreas Johansson wrote:

      > I'd rather expect the words to syllabify as fel.ya and u.lun.do,
      > respectively,

      I rather agree - I did not mean to imply where exactly the syllable
      boundary lies.

      > Another possible internal explanation that struck me right now is that it
      > could simply be due to the different following vowel.

      > [Comparison of derivatives of Etym. WÔ- (Q _o-_/_ó-_) and bases in WA-,
      > such as WA3- (Q _vára_), WAN- (Q _vanya_), etc. exhibit this contrast.
      > See also the statement in _Quendi and Eldar_ that initial _w-_ was "lost in
      > Quenya before _ô_" (XI:367). (Please note that I make no promise of
      > providing citations in the future!) CFH]

      Yes, but it seems that Q phonology avoids _w_ and _y_ glides
      consistently before the phonologically related vowels: the rounded
      vowels in case of _w_, and the highest vowel (_i_) in case of _y_.
      I would not on this ground expect that the following _u_ is the reason
      why _g_ disappears rather than changes into _y_ (we have "yulda",
      so _yu_ is allowed).

      Lukas
    • Lukas Novak
      ... I can think of 2 possible motivations: analogy, or getting the pronunciation nearer to the preceding dental/alveolar _r_ (_l_). Together with the attempt
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 6, 2004
        Ales Bican wrote:

        > I can hardly see motivation in the case of _targâ_ > Q _tarya_.

        I can think of 2 possible motivations: analogy, or getting
        the pronunciation nearer to the preceding dental/alveolar
        _r_ (_l_). Together with the attempt to retain the long syllable
        (which excludes just dropping the sound), because of
        its being stressed.

        Lukas
      • Andreas Johansson
        ... I never said it was a _good_ explanation, but if it has any validity, surely the consonant dropped at the gh stage, and gh is nearer to u than to
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 7, 2004
          Quoting Lukas Novak <lukas.novak@...>:

          > I would not on this ground expect that the following _u_ is the reason
          > why _g_ disappears rather than changes into _y_ (we have "yulda",
          > so _yu_ is allowed).

          I never said it was a _good_ explanation, but if it has any validity, surely
          the consonant dropped at the 'gh' stage, and 'gh' is nearer to 'u' than to 'a'.

          One might also argue that what we need explained isn't why 'gh' dropped in
          _ulundo_, which is the normal fate of 'gh' in Q, but why it failed to drop in
          _tarya_ and _felya_. In this light your suggestion re: maintaining length of a
          stressed syllable seems the more relevant explanation.

          Andreas
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