Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Variants of _r_ in Quenya

Expand Messages
  • Andreas Johansson
    ... What is the difference between a long and a geminate trill? Andreas
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 6, 2004
      Quoting Helios De Rosario Martinez <imrahil@...>:

      > There is discussion on whether phonologically it is a long _r_ (/r:/) or
      > a geminate (/r.r/)

      What is the difference between a long and a geminate trill?

      Andreas
    • Helios De Rosario Martinez
      ... With geminate I wanted to mark (opposite to just long ) that the sound is split between two syllables. At least that is the meaning suggested by the
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 7, 2004
        Andreas Johansson wrote:

        > What is the difference between a long and a geminate trill?

        With "geminate" I wanted to mark (opposite to just "long") that the
        sound is split between two syllables. At least that is the meaning
        suggested by the Spanish philologist Fernándo Lázaro Carreter to the
        term _geminada_ in his _Diccionario de términos filológicos_
        (Editorial Gredos, Madrid 1953):

        "Geminada: Consonante que se pronuncia con dos momentos sucesivos de
        tensión, entre los cuales hay una distensión que sirve de límite
        silábico. Así, la _mm_ en italiano _femmina_."

        ("Geminate: Consonant that is pronounced in two sucesive moments of
        tension, between which there is a distension that marks a syllabic
        limit. Thus, the _mm_ in Italian _femmina_.")

        Helios
      • Emanuele Vicentini
        Greetings, ... Well, the difference between these two concepts has always bothered me. If I understand it (which I doubt) _penknife_ would have a geminate n
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 7, 2004
          Greetings,

          On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Helios De Rosario Martinez wrote:

          > With "geminate" I wanted to mark (opposite to just "long") that the
          > sound is split between two syllables.

          Well, the difference between these two concepts has always bothered me. If I
          understand it (which I doubt) _penknife_ would have a geminate "n" sound,
          right?

          > ("Geminate: Consonant that is pronounced in two sucesive moments of
          > tension, between which there is a distension that marks a syllabic
          > limit. Thus, the _mm_ in Italian _femmina_.")

          Here is the point that urges me to write: to my Italian ears, in _femmina_
          (whose syllabic division is _fem-mi-na_), there's no "distension that
          marks a syllabic limit" like the one I hear in _penknife_.

          Getting back to Tolkien, in a record of _Nam�rie_ and _A Elbereth
          Gilthoniel_ ("The J.R.R. Tolkien Audio Collection", cd #2, tracks #18 and
          #19, Caedmon/Harper Audio, 2001) I hear no "distension": to me _penna_,
          _galadhremmin_, _linnathon_, _lassi_, _lisse_, _pella_, _tellumar_,
          _yassen_, etc. all sound similar, without any "break" between
          consonatal sounds.

          Could someone with better ears and more knowledge be so kind to tell me if
          in those records there are geminate or long consonants?

          --

          Saluti,
          Emanuele.
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.