Re: Variants of _r_ in Quenya
- Quoting Helios De Rosario Martinez <imrahil@...>:
> There is discussion on whether phonologically it is a long _r_ (/r:/) orWhat is the difference between a long and a geminate trill?
> a geminate (/r.r/)
- Andreas Johansson wrote:
> What is the difference between a long and a geminate trill?With "geminate" I wanted to mark (opposite to just "long") that the
sound is split between two syllables. At least that is the meaning
suggested by the Spanish philologist Fernándo Lázaro Carreter to the
term _geminada_ in his _Diccionario de términos filológicos_
(Editorial Gredos, Madrid 1953):
"Geminada: Consonante que se pronuncia con dos momentos sucesivos de
tensión, entre los cuales hay una distensión que sirve de límite
silábico. Así, la _mm_ en italiano _femmina_."
("Geminate: Consonant that is pronounced in two sucesive moments of
tension, between which there is a distension that marks a syllabic
limit. Thus, the _mm_ in Italian _femmina_.")
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Helios De Rosario Martinez wrote:
> With "geminate" I wanted to mark (opposite to just "long") that the
> sound is split between two syllables.
Well, the difference between these two concepts has always bothered me. If I
understand it (which I doubt) _penknife_ would have a geminate "n" sound,
> ("Geminate: Consonant that is pronounced in two sucesive moments of
> tension, between which there is a distension that marks a syllabic
> limit. Thus, the _mm_ in Italian _femmina_.")
Here is the point that urges me to write: to my Italian ears, in _femmina_
(whose syllabic division is _fem-mi-na_), there's no "distension that
marks a syllabic limit" like the one I hear in _penknife_.
Getting back to Tolkien, in a record of _Nam�rie_ and _A Elbereth
Gilthoniel_ ("The J.R.R. Tolkien Audio Collection", cd #2, tracks #18 and
#19, Caedmon/Harper Audio, 2001) I hear no "distension": to me _penna_,
_galadhremmin_, _linnathon_, _lassi_, _lisse_, _pella_, _tellumar_,
_yassen_, etc. all sound similar, without any "break" between
Could someone with better ears and more knowledge be so kind to tell me if
in those records there are geminate or long consonants?