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Re: [Lambengolmor] Re: Yet more on voiced stops

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  • Candon McLean
    Ivan and Fredrik both wrote that phonetic analysis isn t relevant to phonemes (or something similar to that effect). I agree. My mistake. Indeed sounds like
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 8, 2002
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      Ivan and Fredrik both wrote that phonetic analysis isn't relevant to
      phonemes (or something similar to that effect).

      I agree. My mistake. Indeed sounds like [tS] are phonemes.

      The point I was trying to make is that these kind of complex phonemes
      with coarticulated sounds can't be split, and so if we wanted to test
      whether Quenya clusters are phonemic or not, we should be able to do
      so by focusing on the coarticulated properties of these sounds (like
      affricates, etc).

      Candon


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    • anthonyappleyard
      Apart from _Aldudenie_, what known instances of Quenya _d_ between vowels are known? If _Aldudenie_ is the only example, perhaps it is a stray mistake by
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 11, 2002
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        Apart from _Aldudenie_, what known instances of Quenya _d_ between
        vowels are known?

        If _Aldudenie_ is the only example, perhaps it is a stray mistake by
        Tolkien and if he had lived longer he would have found and corrected
        it.

        [It has been suggested many times before that _Aldudenie_, composed
        by a Vanyarin elf, is a Vanyarin, not Quenya, title. Carl]
      • Eleder
        ... The best discussion I can remember about the possibility that *_-dénie_ was the Vanyarin cognate of Noldorin _nainie_, lament , is the #5885 message of
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 12, 2002
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          > [It has been suggested many times before that _Aldudenie_, composed
          > by a Vanyarin elf, is a Vanyarin, not Quenya, title. Carl]

          The best discussion I can remember about the possibility that *_-dénie_
          was the Vanyarin cognate of Noldorin _nainie_, "lament", is the #5885
          message of Elfling, by Ales Bican:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/5885

          As he said, it's hard to believe that it could be a typo by Tolkien,
          since the word _Aldudénie_ appears in different manuscripts and
          texts carefully revised by Tolkien.

          By the way, I introduce myself in this list, as member of the
          Lambenor Spanish-speaking mailing-list, and the Team of
          Languages of the Spanish Tolkien Society.

          ------
          Eleder

          "La fantasía se inocula en tu intelecto cual vacuna contra la sórdida
          subsistencia, cuando el aguijón de John Ronald Reuel Tolkien se
          inserta en los patológicos hemisferios cerebrales de todo lector que
          padezca el acierto de acceder a su terapéutica saga."
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