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Noldorin and Sindarin phonological development (was Re: _Huorn_)

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  • Carl F. Hostetter
    I would like to extend Pat s comments with two of my own: First, a chart of the phonological developments from Primitive Eldarin to Noldorin or to Sindarin,
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 10, 2003
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      I would like to extend Pat's comments with two of my own:

      First, a chart of the phonological developments from Primitive Eldarin
      to Noldorin or to Sindarin, while certainly useful, would yet be no
      substitute for the actual evidence of the languages themselves. Charts
      and other like distillations inevitably include hypothesis and gloss
      over particular peculiarities and exceptions. For a relatively limited
      corpus like those of Noldorin or Sindarin, this can be ameliorated by
      inclusion of exhaustive exemplars from the sources; but the result of
      doing so would basically just be a reorganization _Etymologies_ and the
      few other sources, into a form emphasizing groupings of like
      developments. My point being that, since the sources are not all that
      extensive, it is not too difficult, if one is not impatient, to find an
      example or two showing the path and result(s) of most any phonological
      development needed.

      Second, in addition to having what remains the best indices of
      Tolkien's languages in _The Lord of the Rings_, _An Introduction to
      Elvish_ features a still very useful tabulation of the chief
      phonological changes from P.E. to Quenya and to Sindarin (as they stood
      at the time of the publication of 2nd ed. of _The Lord of the Rings_),
      again as exemplified by the instances of these languages in _The Lord
      of the Rings_.

      Carl


      =============================================
      Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org

      ho bios brachys, he de techne makre.
      Ars longa, vita brevis.
      The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.
      "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take such
      a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about."
    • Edward J. Kloczko
      Patrick H. Wynne wrote ... No, all the US publishing houses I have approached have declined it because of the usual copyright problem. ... No I haven t gone
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 12, 2003
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        Patrick H. Wynne wrote

        > [My apologies for having overlooked your discussion of _huorn_ --
        > I'm guilty of not speaking a single word of French, alas! Are there
        > any plans for an English translation of this book?

        No, all the US publishing houses I have approached have declined it
        because of the usual copyright problem.

        > I'd also like to know if in your book you explained your reasoning
        > for glossing the first element of _huorn_ as 'shouting' -- or is the
        > passage cited above all that is said there on the topic? -- PHW]


        No I haven't gone into much explanation about _hû-orn_ > _Huorn_
        in my book. But I should have translated in my post _hû-orn_ as
        'barking-tree' instead, since *KHUG- 'bark, bay'.

        Edouard Kloczko

        * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

        [Thanks for the further clarification! -- PHW]
      • David Kiltz
        Last year a book on literary and linguistic matters Tolkien came out in France (in French), the dictionnaire Tolkien , edited by Vincent Ferré. Since I
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 20, 2013
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          Last year a book on literary and linguistic matters Tolkien came out in France (in French), the "dictionnaire Tolkien", edited by Vincent Ferré. Since I haven't seen it mentioned here on the list (although it may have escaped me), I'd like to draw your attention to it.

          With its 670 pages and contributions from 60 people it might be of interest to those who read Tolkien and French. Indeed, if someone has read it, maybe she or he would be willing to provide a brief review of the content relevant to the scope of this list.

          Two links to the book:
          http://www.cnrseditions.fr/Litterature/6619-dictionnaire-tolkien-vincent-ferre.html
          http://www.amazon.fr/Dictionnaire-Tolkien-Vincent-Ferr%C3%A9/dp/2271075041


          -David
        • Damien
          David, Thanks for your comments on the _Dictionnaire_. I m sure Vincent Ferré would be glad to see this work discussed here. Being involved in the book, I
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 21, 2013
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            David,

            Thanks for your comments on the _Dictionnaire_. I'm sure Vincent Ferré would be glad to see this work discussed here. Being involved in the book, I cannot really comment on it, but there are a few more pieces of information that might interest you, I think:

            - A full presentation of the book is available on Vincent Ferré's website:
            http://www.pourtolkien.fr/spip.php?article126

            - A large part of the _Dictionnaire_ can actually be read online:
            http://books.google.fr/books?id=W4Ewbus1yuoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=dictionnaire+tolkien&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=KjCZULO8JomohAeC-oDgCQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

            - A list of articles grouped by topics is also available online. You might wish to have a look at the "Langues" category:
            http://www.pourtolkien.fr/IMG/pdf/dictionnaire_-_notices_par_domaines.pdf

            - Two critics of interest can be found online (in French):
            > On _Acta Fabula_:
            http://www.fabula.org/revue/document7688.php

            > On Elbakin.net:
            http://www.elbakin.net/fantasy/roman/dictionnaire-tolkien-3859

            Best regards,
            Damien


            --- In lambengolmor@yahoogroups.com, David Kiltz <derdron@...> wrote:
            >
            > Last year a book on literary and linguistic matters Tolkien came out in France (in French), the "dictionnaire Tolkien", edited by Vincent Ferré. Since I haven't seen it mentioned here on the list (although it may have escaped me), I'd like to draw your attention to it.
            >
            > With its 670 pages and contributions from 60 people it might be of interest to those who read Tolkien and French. Indeed, if someone has read it, maybe she or he would be willing to provide a brief review of the content relevant to the scope of this list.
            >
            > Two links to the book:
            > http://www.cnrseditions.fr/Litterature/6619-dictionnaire-tolkien-vincent-ferre.html
            > http://www.amazon.fr/Dictionnaire-Tolkien-Vincent-Ferr%C3%A9/dp/2271075041
            >
            >
            > -David
            >
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