Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Lambengolmor] Re: Possible ON -r derivation?

Expand Messages
  • Boris Shapiro
    Aiya! We ve recently discussed the question of ON _ndakro_ slaughter, and a possible unknown _-ro_ non-agentive derivation. I have one more example to add: N
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 5, 2003
      Aiya!

      We've recently discussed the question of ON _ndakro_ "slaughter, and a
      possible unknown _-ro_ non-agentive derivation. I have one more
      example to add: N _lhathron_ "hearer, listener, eavesdropper" (<
      *la(n)sro-ndo); _lhathro_ or _lhathrado_ "listen in, eavesdrop". The
      etymology N _lhathron_ < _la(n)sro-ndo_ is interesting. Here we have
      _-ro_, which is obviously not agentive (because an agentive ending
      _-ndo_ present). Supposing that it is the same _-ro_ derivative
      element as in ON _ndakro_, we are left with two possibilities
      (excluding the theory of personification):

      1) _la(n)sro_ and _ndakro_ are abstract nouns.
      2) _la(n)sro_ and _ndakro_ are verbs.

      What do you think about it?

      Namaarie! S.Y., Elenhil Laiquendo [Boris Shapiro]

      : sii man i yulma nin enquantuva? :
    • Carl F. Hostetter
      ... I don t find that obvious. It is not at all unheard of to have double suffixes in languages; for example, the English word children is a double plural
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 6, 2003
        On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at 01:23 AM, Boris Shapiro wrote:

        > N _lhathron_ "hearer, listener, eavesdropper" (< *la(n)sro-ndo);
        > _lhathro_ or _lhathrado_ "listen in, eavesdrop". The etymology N
        > _lhathron_ < _la(n)sro-ndo_ is interesting. Here we have _-ro_, which
        > is obviously not agentive (because an agentive ending _-ndo_ present).

        I don't find that obvious. It is not at all unheard of to have "double"
        suffixes in languages; for example, the English word "children" is a
        double plural (_childr-_ being from the original plural form). It
        appears that in Noldorin original agentives in _-ro_ were strengthened
        with the addition of _-ndo_ (note that this strengthening would have
        the salutary effect of maintaining an agentive marker against the N.
        loss of final syllables).



        --
        =============================================
        Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org

        ho bios brachys, he de techne makre.
        Ars longa, vita brevis.
        The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.
        "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take such
        a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about."
      • Boris Shapiro
        Aiya! ... CFH I don t find that obvious. It is not at all unheard of to have double CFH suffixes in languages; ... Yes, you re right. I should have
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 6, 2003
          Aiya!

          Sunday, April 6, 2003, 5:56:18 PM, Carl F . Hostetter wrote:

          >> Here we have _-ro_, which is obviously not agentive (because an agentive
          >> ending _-ndo_ present). ...

          CFH> I don't find that obvious. It is not at all unheard of to have "double"
          CFH> suffixes in languages; ...


          Yes, you're right. I should have remembered cases like N _badhron_
          (_*badro-ndo_) etc.


          Namaarie! S.Y., Elenhil Laiquendo [Boris Shapiro]


          : nai ilqua eruanna i nee antanin terlinnuva sen ยท nai erye vartuva :
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.