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(ú)sahtienna (VT43:22/23)

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  • Yyr Threwn
    We read in the last lines of VT 43, page 22: _sahtienna_ (At. V) is explained in the etymological notes on the verso of At. V, which give the root THAG-
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 7, 2002
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      We read in the last lines of VT 43, page 22:

      "_sahtienna_ (At. V) is explained in the etymological notes on the verso of
      At. V, which give the root THAG- 'oppress, crush, press' [...], whence
      _thakta-_ > Q. _<thorn>ahtie / sahtie_ 'pressure or force (to do something
      against one's will or conscience)'."

      And in the first lines of page 23:

      "_úsahtienna_ (At. V revision) and _úsahtíenna_ (At. VI probably a slip for
      _úsahtienna_) seem to derive from addition of the prefix _ú_ [...] to the
      noun _sahtie_ cited above (< THAG-). However the notes on the verso of
      At. V attribute _úsahtie_ to a different stem : " SAKA- 'draw, pull' ;
      _<thorn>/sahta_ 'induce' : _úsahtie_ 'inducement to do wrong' "

      So my question is : are really the two etymological notes (<-> THAG- & <->
      SAKA-) on the verso of AT. V ? Or is there a slip as i wonder for "the verso
      of At. VI" instead of "the verso of At. V" for SAKA- ? Or did i miss
      something?

      And a second question is about the case of a stem in SAKA- : how could
      it produce an alternative _<thorn>/s_ (in _<thorn>/sahta_) ? Is anyone
      able to shed light on this ?

      Jérôme

      PS : just for information cf. _Arda sahta_ for Arda Marred (X:405)

      [Both of the etymological notes cited in VT 43 are written on the verso of
      At. V; there are no notes on the verso of At. VI. As for the alternative form
      _thahta_ (_th_ == thorn), this could not be a regular phonetic development
      from a primitive root SAKA-, but please note that what Tolkien actually
      wrote was _saka-_ (lower-case letters), implying that this might in fact be
      a Quenya basic verb stem of the pattern CVC-, like _mat-_ 'eat' (V:371).
      In this case, Q. _saka-_ could in fact be derived from an earlier form
      *_thaka-_, hence the variation _th-/s-_ in _th/sahta_ 'induce'.

      On the other hand, if Tolkien intended _saka-_ as a primitive root
      (and I think this is probably the case), then _thahta_ 'induce' might be
      explained as an analogical form influenced by the root THAG- and its
      derivatives. And it must be kept in mind that morphology and
      etymology were quite fluid in these texts viewed as a whole; total
      consistency in these notes, even though they were written at the
      same time on the back of the same postcard, cannot be expected.
      -- Patrick Wynne]

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