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RE: [Lambengolmor] Numerals as Adjectives in Sindarin

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  • Pavel Iosad
    Hello, ... First off, the second elements in genitive appositive constructions are not lenited, though that is not the matter. To the point, actually there is
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 4, 2002
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      Hello,

      > But _Lebennin_ seems strangely contradicting to the late example of
      > _Menegroth_ 'the Thousand Caves or Delvings' (XI:415), which has
      > _groth_ 'a large excavation' (XI:415) in an unchanged form. Maybe it
      > is a genitive construction from *_Meneg 'Roth_ 'Thousand of Cave'?
      > That would seem strange to me.

      First off, the second elements in genitive appositive constructions are
      not lenited, though that is not the matter.

      To the point, actually there is nothing strange in that. For instance,
      those Slavic languages that have a genitive usually employ the genitive
      (plural though) after numerals like a thousand (though sometimes the the
      gen.sg. after small numbers): cf. Russian _tys'acha pescher_ 'thousand
      caves' (where _peschera_ 'cave' is in the gen.pl.) and _tri peschery_
      'three caves' (gen.pl.)

      Even closer to that, Welsh. Numerals can be either in the form 'numeral
      + sg. noun' (and so that is essentialy an appositive genitive
      construction) - _pedwar ceffyl_ 'four horses' or, usually with higher
      numerals, in the form 'numeral + _o_ + plural noun': _unarbymtheg o
      geffylau_ 'sixteen horses'. It is true that _mil_ 'thousand' requirwes
      the _o_ + plural construction, but why would Sindarin follow Welsh
      patterns?

      Pavel
      --
      Pavel Iosad pavel_iosad@...

      Is mall a mharcaicheas am fear a bheachdaicheas
      --Scottish proverb
    • Hans
      ... Of course, you meant gen. sg. here (peschery). It s really interesting that Russian uses the genitive singular for small numbers, and it s still more
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 4, 2002
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        --- In lambengolmor@y..., "Pavel Iosad" <pavel_iosad@m...> wrote:

        > For instance, those Slavic languages that have a genitive usually employ
        > the genitive (plural though) after numerals like a thousand (though
        > sometimes the the gen.sg. after small numbers): cf. Russian _tys'acha
        > pescher_ 'thousand caves' (where _peschera_ 'cave' is in the gen.pl.)
        > and _tri peschery_ 'three caves' (gen.pl.)

        Of course, you meant "gen. sg." here (peschery). It's really interesting
        that Russian uses the genitive singular for small numbers, and it's still
        more interesting that the language has a precise notion of "small":2--4.
        The use of genitive plural starts with 5 (so thousand is on the safe side
        :-). Genitive itself is not surprising, naturally (partitive genitive).

        Hans
      • Lukas Novak
        ... Err, isn t it rather nom. pl. ? ... A: Philosophy is the making of significant distinctions. B: Why isn t that just taxonomy? A: Your question proves my
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 5, 2002
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          > --- In lambengolmor@y..., "Pavel Iosad" <pavel_iosad@m...> wrote:

          >> _tri peschery_ 'three caves' (gen.pl.)

          > Of course, you meant "gen. sg." here (peschery).

          Err, isn't it rather nom. pl. ?

          --------------------------------------------------------
          A: Philosophy is the making of significant distinctions.
          B: Why isn't that just taxonomy?
          A: Your question proves my point.
          (Philip Davis)

          [Again, let's bring this back to Tolkien. Also, please sign your posts.
          And if all you have to submit is a correction like the above, especially
          one not involving Tolkien's languages, please point them out to the
          author privately, and let the author make any necessary correction to
          the list. I've been very pleased with the very high "signal-to-noise"
          ratio of this list, and I intend to maintain it. CFH]
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