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Re: [Lambengolmor] Re: Annwfn, Rhiannon, Arawn & Morris-Jones

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  • Candon McLean
    ... Which is significant for _udûn_, but Tolkien s acceptance of Morris-Jones eytomogy here doesn t perclude Tolkien s use of the other interpretations of
    Message 1 of 5 , May 31, 2002
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      I wrote:

      > Tolkien, I believe, may have been influenced by Morris-Jones, but he
      > certainly would not have accepted Morris-Jones' etymologies blindly.

      Carl replied:

      > Indeed! Which if anything makes it all the more significant that
      > Tolkien nonetheless accepted Jones's etymology in this case, at least
      > to the extent of echoing it in his own notes.

      Which is significant for _ud�n_, but Tolkien's acceptance of
      Morris-Jones' eytomogy here doesn't perclude Tolkien's use of the other
      interpretations of _Annwfn_ for other Elvish words, e.g. _ann�n_.

      Indeed it seems very Tolkien to have two words of Elvish that have
      fallen together in meaning in Human languages to explain the various
      interpretations of the Welsh _Annwfn_.

      Candon


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    • Carl F. Hostetter
      ... Oh, I agree, wholeheartedly. I never meant to imply that there could be _no_ intended relationship between S. _Annûn_ and Welsh _Annw(f)n_. But if there
      Message 2 of 5 , May 31, 2002
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        On 5/31/02 9:32 AM, "Candon McLean" <candon3@...> wrote:

        > Which is significant for _udûn_, but Tolkien's acceptance of
        > Morris-Jones' eytomogy here doesn't perclude Tolkien's use of the other
        > interpretations of _Annwfn_ for other Elvish words, e.g. _annûn_.

        Oh, I agree, wholeheartedly. I never meant to imply that there could be _no_
        intended relationship between S. _Annûn_ and Welsh _Annw(f)n_.

        But if there is, it must be a different sort of relationship than that
        proposed for _Udûn_ (< *_Utubnu_) and _Annw(f)n_ (< *_n-dub-n-_). It is just
        conceivable that *_n-dub-n-_, the ancient antecedent of _Annw(f)n_ (as
        corrobated by cognates in other languages), could have some relationship
        with the Eldarin forms; but it would be much harder to argue that either
        _Annw(f)n_ or *_n-dub-n_ could have been formed upon S. _Annûn_, Q.
        _Andúne_, or their antecedents (how, for instance, could we account for the
        _f_ of _Annwfn_?)


        |======================================================================|
        | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
        | |
        | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
        | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
        | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
        | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
        | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
        |======================================================================|
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