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Re: Past/perfect in Eldarin

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  • gentlebeldin
    ... Indeed, we should avoid misunderstandings. But I thought I made clear I was speaking of the group of participles of strong verbs like been, seen, done,
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 11, 2002
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      --- In lambengolmor@y..., Ivan A Derzhanski <iad@m...> wrote:

      > By contrast, English is not our subject here, and while we may
      > think that the established grammatical/linguistic terminology
      > applied to English is suboptimal (as it often is), parting ways
      > with it on this forum is probably never advisable.

      Indeed, we should avoid misunderstandings. But I thought I made clear
      I was speaking of the group of participles of strong verbs like "been,
      seen, done, gone, fallen, spoken", having the suffix "(e)n(e)", like
      in one kind of Eldarin past tense (coincidence or not). If you tell me
      "passive participle" (and "irregular") is the standard term for that,
      so be it. As you said, English grammar isn't our main concern, here.

      > Re participles: I don't see why a participle can't be past
      > and/or passive just because it can be part of constructions
      > that are themselves not past and/or not passive.

      Maybe. Quite a few of the participles mentioned above are formed from
      intransitive verbs, however, so they can't possibly be used in ANY
      passive construction. "Suboptimal terminology" would be a mild way to
      put it, then.

      Concerning another point: If we want to compare Elvish languages and
      their tense structure with other languages, we won't be able to avoid
      the established terminology in this area entirely. And "resultative"
      is one of the possible meanings of perfect tense, others are called
      "experiential" or "extended now" (recent past/persistent situation).
      Naturally, I didn't invent those notions myself.

      Hans
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