Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Elision and _'n_

Expand Messages
  • Petri Tikka
    ... From: Pavel Iosad To: lambengolmor@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:55 PM Subject: [Lambengolmor] Re: Elision and _ n_ Aiya! ... Aiya ...
    Message 1 of 4 , May 30, 2002
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Pavel Iosad
      To: lambengolmor@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:55 PM
      Subject: [Lambengolmor] Re: Elision and _'n_

      Aiya!

      Terry Dock wrote:

      >>Well, maybe not. Let's consider the following sentence: _Utúlie'n aurë!
      Aiya
      >>Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!_ (S:229)

      [...]
      >>If Ales is right, then _Utúlie'n aurë!_ would be an example of an elision
      >>occuring between unidentical vowels; in this case E and I.

      Pavel Iosad wrote:

      >This is possible, however, I would still hold that elision in _siluv(a)
      >(e)lye_ would not be possible. It is not unlikely that elision can happen
      >in the case of non-identical vowels if they are, say, both front or both
      >back and so the elision is in effect a case of assimilation. That would
      >possibly account for the elision in the cited phrase, but would still
      >invalidate any possibility of elision in the example at hand.

      There is another attested example of elision between E and I:
      _ír' Anarinya queluva_ (V:72). _nai elen siluva lyenna_ also
      has two adjacent vowels of dissimilar nature, so why couldn't
      this be another case of elision? I know that one may then wonder
      why it isn't _*nai elen siluv' elyenna_, but since we have so few
      examples of elisions, why couldn't it happen the othe way around?
      Both syllables are unstressed, so elision is equally possible in both
      of them.

      Petri Tikka
    • Pavel Iosad
      Hello, ... All right, you got me here. Objection withdrawn, at least partly. Note though - the elided vowel happens to be the first one. [...] ... I do not
      Message 2 of 4 , May 30, 2002
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello,
        Petri Tikka wrote:

        >There is another attested example of elision between E and I:
        >_ír' Anarinya queluva_ (V:72).

        All right, you got me here. Objection withdrawn, at least partly.

        Note though - the elided vowel happens to be the first one.

        [...]
        >I know that one may then wonder
        >why it isn't _*nai elen siluv' elyenna_, but since we have so few
        >examples of elisions, why couldn't it happen the othe way around?

        I do not find this a sound argument. Of course, absence of evidence
        is not evidence of absence, but neither can absence of evidence be
        taken as evdience of presence.

        >Both syllables are unstressed, so elision is equally possible in both
        >of them.

        You seem to have missed my point about the structural importance of the
        prefixed vowel. The emphatic pronoun without the prefixed _sundóma_ is
        a mere suffix. That is why I guess it (the _sundóma) won't in all
        probability be elided.

        Also, since you argue that _ly_ is an impermissible initial, I am yet
        to hear a justification :-) I cannot understand how _ly_ differs from
        _ny_.

        Pavel
        --
        Pavel Iosad pavel_iosad@...

        'I am a philologist, and thus a misunderstood man'
        --JRR Tolkien, _The Notion Club Papers_
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.