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Re: [LDB] "Canonical" Quenya and Quettahostanie

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  • John Garth
    ... That is why, as an initial stage (which would itself take a very long time), no such analysis or forms ought to be included in a Tolkienian linguistic
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 25, 2002
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      on 25/7/02 1:22 pm, Petri Tikka at kari.j.tikka@... wrote:

      > Not adding "inauthentic" forms would make it easier, but so would not
      > adding "inauthentic" analysis, "inauthentic" singular forms, "inauthentic"
      > undeclined forms, "inauthentic" synonyms, "inauthentic" antonyms, etc..
      > It would enlarge the possibility of this project ever coming to fruit,
      > but it would also make it much poorer.

      That is why, as an initial stage (which would itself take a very long time),
      no such analysis or forms ought to be included in a Tolkienian linguistic
      database. Surely the best methodology is to gather as much data as possible
      before extrapolating from it.

      Anyone so inclined could provide analysis and extrapolation elsewhere. That
      way, you would have the most reliable catalogue of the Tolkienian languages
      possible; and elsewhere you would have commentaries plainly distinguishable
      from it, whose authors could take responsibility for their own work.

      In my abortive database I included, at the most, an indication that a word
      was, for example, a plural form or a noun when it was (to my mind)
      indisputable from the context but would be unclear out of context. (This was
      relatively easy, in the vast majority of cases, because the context was
      generally English rather than, say, Quenya.)

      The process of creating a thesaurus, which _Quettahostanie_ appears
      encompass, seems to me quite alien to the aims of a linguistic catalogue,
      and should also be kept separate.

      John Garth
    • Kai MacTane
      ... It s certainly possible for us to simply start loading attested Tolkienian forms into QH as it stands, and not bother with compounded/coined
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 26, 2002
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        At 7/25/02 10:07 AM , John Garth wrote:

        >That is why, as an initial stage (which would itself take a very long time),
        >no such analysis or forms ought to be included in a Tolkienian linguistic
        >database. Surely the best methodology is to gather as much data as possible
        >before extrapolating from it.

        It's certainly possible for us to simply start loading attested Tolkienian
        forms into QH as it stands, and not bother with compounded/coined
        (post-Tolkienian) material until later (if at all). Just because the
        capability is there doesn't mean we have to use it immediately. However:

        >Anyone so inclined could provide analysis and extrapolation elsewhere. That
        >way, you would have the most reliable catalogue of the Tolkienian languages
        >possible; and elsewhere you would have commentaries plainly distinguishable
        >from it, whose authors could take responsibility for their own work.

        There is a certain level of utility in having things centralized, and hence
        easily searchable through one interface. Granted, this is of no particular
        use for the academic community. But for the Quenya-composition folks, it
        would be nice to be able to search for attested Tolkienian words *and*
        newer coinages all at once. (Also note that QH will display Tolkien's forms
        higher up in the results than the non-Tolkien forms, all other things being
        equal -- for more details, see the guide to search results in the
        documentation. Essentially, it depends on just what the user enters as
        search terms, but attestation level is the second-level sort criterion.)

        >The process of creating a thesaurus, which _Quettahostanie_ appears
        >encompass, seems to me quite alien to the aims of a linguistic catalogue,
        >and should also be kept separate.

        I'm a bit confused by how QH acts as a thesaurus -- do you mean the listing
        of synonyms? I had actually intended that to be a bit more of a research
        tool; there are places where it can be useful to compare and contrast
        different words that refer to similar or identical things.

        --Kai MacTane
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        "Wind in wings,/Two angels falling
        To die like this/With a last kiss..."
        --Siouxsie and the
        Banshees,
        "Face to Face"
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