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937Another look at Q. _mondósaresse_

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  • laurifindil
    Oct 28, 2006
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      Roman Rausch wrote:

      >In Letter no.342 Tolkien gives "the elvish word for 'bull'" as
      _mundo_ (apparently in Quenya), so that one can identify
      _mondo_ 'ox' here.

      _Mundo_ can hardly be anything but Quenya. Its CE etymon could
      be *_mundô_ or better *_mundu_ with a short "male" _-u_ element.
      Still the stem is not stated in the published corpus : could be
      ?MUD- or ?MUN-.

      [Etym. gives MBUD- 'project', > *_mbundu_ > Q. _mundo_ 'snout,
      nose, cape'; perhaps _mundo_ 'bull' is a later conception of this
      root and its derivatives. Note that Etym. _mundo_ has 'cape' as
      one of its meanings -- a much later word for 'cape (of land)' is
      Q. _nortil_ (VT47:28), in which the final element is < TIL 'point',
      whence also Q. _tilde_ 'spike, horn' and _Tilion_ 'the Horned'
      (Etym. s.v. TIL-). So perhaps Tolkien later imagined MBUD-
      'project' > Q. _mundo_ 'animal with (projecting) horns, a bull'?
      It should also be noted that GL has _mû_ 'ox', _mûs_ 'cow' etc.,
      clearly cognate with Gn. _mul-, mum_ 'low, bellow'; if a root
      *MU- 'low, bellow' survived, then perhaps later Q. _mundo_ is
      related, maybe *'bellower' with agentive ending _-ndo_ as in
      _colindo_ 'bearer' (LR:953), _runando_ 'redeemer' (VT44:17),
      etc. -- PHW]

      The change of internal u > o to show sex (or rather the lack of it)
      bull > ox, is quite unexplained, or is it ?

      [I would think that despite the similarity, *_mondo_ 'ox' must be
      etymologically distinct from _mundo_ 'bull', though undoubtedly
      the form of one suggested the other. The Etymologies gives the
      base MÔ- with derivatives Q. _mól_ 'slave, thrall' and _móta-_
      'labour, toil', so perhaps *_mondo_ 'ox' is from MÔ- + agentive
      _-ndo_, with the sense 'laborer, draught-animal'? -- PHW]

      The long _-ó-_ could come from o+a ; cf. Finwe's name _Ñoldóran_
      'King of the Ñoldor' < _Ñoldo_ + _aran_ (XII:343).
      Then _mondósaresse_ would be *_mondo-asaresse_ with Q.
      *_asare_ "ford". But that does not satisfy me either. In Noldorin we
      have a second element in _athrad_ < _ath-rad_ "ford". The element
      _-rad_ < RAT- 'walk' is missing in Q *_asare_ (< ? *_athare_).
      Furthermore in Etym. it is stated that "N prefix _ath-_ on both sides,
      across, is probably related" which seems to imply that that "ath-"
      was not present in Q. and there is NO word for "ford" Etym.

      And making it _ó-atha-r(e)_, is not very logical either. _Ath-_ is
      a prefix and two prefixes are not added to make a word in our
      corpus of Q. We need a meaningful "stem" here. And how to
      account for the ending -r(e) then anyway ?

      More questions than answers, as usual... ;-)

      Namárië,

      Edouard Kloczko
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