857Re: [Lambengolmor] Nurn and the Sea of Núrnen / Nûrnen
- Nov 20, 2005Edward Kloczko wrote :
> Do we have in some unpublished mss. an Elvish root for 'sad' withPHW wrote :
> a Sindarin/Noldorin word _nûr_?
> [Fortunately, we don't need to resort to the unpublished mss. --All of these Elvish words, including the late Quenya verb _nurru-_,
> which in any event could not be cited here -- to find a probable
> etymological source for _Núrnen_ 'Sad Water'. GL gives _nur-_
> (_nauri_) 'growl, grumble', _nurn_ 'plaint, lament, a complaint',
> and _nurna-_ 'bewail, lament, complain of' (PE11:61). QL gives
> the root as NURU-, whence _nuru-_ 'growl (of dogs), grumble,
> carp, etc.' and _nur_ 'a growl, a complaint' (PE12:68). Compare
> Q. _nurrula_ 'mumbling' < _nurru-_ 'murmur, grumble' in the
> final version of "The Last Ark" (MC:222-23).
> So S./N. *_nûr_ (or perhaps *_nûrn_) in _Núrnen_ 'Sad Water' is
> apparently 'sad' in the sense 'bewailing, lamenting, complaining,
> grumbling', no doubt a reference to the general mood of the
> hapless laborers in "the great slave-worked fields" beside the
have a short _u_; the discrepancy between the name of the sea
_Nûrnen/Núrnen_ and the region _Nurn_ still remains.
I am not a native speaker of English, but I see not much semantic
relation between N./S. _*nûrn_ adj. 'sad' and Gnomish _nurn_ noun
'plaint, lament, a complaint'.
If we had a Noldorin/Sindarin compound *_nûrn_ + _nen_ it would
be *_Núrnnen_. _Pelennor_ < *_pelen_ adj. 'fenced, encircled' +
_nor_ 'land' (see LOTR-Readers Companion:512).
[I'll take Edouard's three points in order:
1) -- My citation of forms in _nur-_ from GL, QL, and MC was
not intended to account for the discrepancy in vowel length
between _Nurn_ and _Núrnen/Nûrnen_. It is possible that the
varying vowel length is due to differing parts of speech, e.g.,
adj. *_nûr_ 'sad' vs. noun *_nurn_ 'sadness'.
Also, please note that I did not cite _all_ derivatives of NURU-
given in QL, since I was more concerned with the _meaning_
of the derivatives rather than the vowel length -- QL also gives
forms with long vowels: _nûru- (pret. _nurûne_) 'growl (of dogs),
grumble, carp, etc.' and _Núri_ (a name of the death-goddess
Fui), and the full entry for _nur_ 'a growl, a complaint' includes
the stem-forms _nûr-, nurr-_ (PE12:68).
2) -- You cannot see a connection between the senses 'sad'
and 'plaint, lament'? Eng. _plaint_ means 'a complaint or
lamentation', while a _lament_ or _lamentation_ is 'a passionate
expression of grief or sorrow'. According to Buck's _Dictionary
of Selected Synonyms in the Principal Indo-European Languages_,
entry for "sad" (16.36) -- "In many languages the words for 'sad'
are simply derivs. of those for 'grief, sorrow' ... and so mean lit.
'grieving' or 'sorrowful'. Since Elvish NURU- has connotations
of 'lamenting, bewailing' (i.e., expressions of grief or sorrow),
it seems quite plausible to associate this root with 'sad(ness)'.
3) -- It seems to me unlikely that *_nûrn_ + _nen_ would yield
*_Núrnnen_ with _rnn_; simplification of _rnn_ >_rn_ in such
an instance seems probable. Can you cite an example of _rnn_
as a consonant cluster in Nold./Sindarin? In any event, _Núrnen_
is just as likely to consist of _nûr_ + _nen_. -- PHW]
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