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76Re: Various umlauts in Sindarin plurals

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  • Pavel Iosad
    Jun 18, 2002
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      Hello,
      Hans Georg Lundahl wrote:

      [I wrote that]
      > 1 o>y involves two processes (agreeing both with me and his combatant);

      No combatants here, there weren't any major disagreements anyway! :-)

      [Indeed: that one slipped by me. Disagreement on matters of fact or
      interpretation most definitely does not constitute "combat". We will
      _not_ go down that road on _this_ list. Carl]

      [...]
      > I think that *orodi regularly became *öröd, which as an isolated word
      > w[oul]d h[a]v[e] become *eryd, but that in pre-stress positions, like
      > Eredwethion, Ered Nimrais, Ered Lithui, Ered Luin it became ered.

      I don't think this is plausible. We obviously have _o_ in stressed
      positions yielding both _y_ and _e_. I also think that in hypothetical
      compounds like Ered Wethrin, the main stress would fall on _Ered_, as it
      is syntactically the head, and _*Gwathren_ the modifier.

      > And in the pl[ural] of orod it seems the st[atus] constr[uctus] f[or]m
      > ousted the fully stressed f[or]m, there being so many mountains, that
      > just saying "the mountains" w[oul]d be meaningless in most naturally
      > occurring contexts.

      I beg to disagree. There are plenty of legal contexts for saying _the
      mountains_, like _Beren wandered through the mountains to Doriath_,
      _Morgoth was unable to discover Turgon's stronghold in the mountains_
      and so on and so forth.

      > JRRT vacillated - yes, but he did so with consistency, always making
      > sure his latest idea was consistent with all others, with all the old
      > except the one he was replacing. So JRRT's vacillation is not the
      > problem.

      Well, not that I agree with it, but anyway you must consider that the
      vacillating refers to whether he should implement the change or not at
      all.

      > The problem is: Christopher did not always know what was the
      > latest idea of his Father and how much he had changed and
      > invented since, to restore consistency. And whether he had
      > changed s[ome]th[ing] in this or that aspect, required by
      > another change but not recorded.

      If it is not recorded, no one can say what Tolkien intended.

      Pavel
      --
      Pavel Iosad pavel_iosad@...

      'I am a philologist, and thus a misunderstood man'
      --JRR Tolkien, _The Notion Club Papers_
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