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  • laurifindil
    Apr 14, 2003
      In VT nº43 on p. 29 was published a chart of prepositions and enclitic
      pronouns. I was wondering how others do interpret the following:

      ÓNI, ONYE "you (both) with me" or simply "(you) with me".

      Furthermore, the pronoun _-ni, -nye_ should be declined in the
      accusative case (since they are not subject).

      Edouard Kloczko

      [These forms both seem likely to mean simply *'(together) with
      me' -- I'm not sure why the word 'you' is included in the glosses
      above, unless it is assumed that _ó-_ here must have a dual
      sense, as described in "Quendi and Eldar", referring to "the
      meeting, junction, or union of two things or persons, or of
      two groups thought of as units" (XI:367). But if so, this would
      not preclude the use of _óni, onye_ with other words or
      prepositions than 'you': "God is with me", "You are with me",
      "He/she/it is with me", etc. In fact, pretty much any "A with B"
      construction could be viewed as "dual" in the sense of
      describing a "union of two things or persons, or of two
      groups thought of as units".

      And while we might indeed theoretically _expect_ that a
      pronominal object of a preposition would be in the accusative
      case, it is clear from the many forms cited in VT43 -- _onye_,
      _olye_, _carelye_, aselye_, _canye_, _calye_, _etemme_,
      _mimme_, etc. -- that Tolkien envisioned (at the time of the
      writing of the various Q. Catholic prayers) that nominative
      endings such as _-nye_, _-(e)lye_, etc. could in fact be attached
      to prepositions to serve as objects. The chart in question
      indicates that these forms coexisted with forms such as _óni_,
      _óle_, in which the endings _-ni, -le_ actually are accusative
      in form. -- PHW]
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