- Mar 21 5:35 AMOn Friday, March 21, 2003, at 08:14 AM, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:
> Yes _únótime_ has two long syllables, but I did not imply in my postAh, but you did, when you wrote yesterday (in message 369): "the direct
> that such a pattern was not permitted in Quenya.
ancestor of Q. _omentie_ could not have had a long ó, because the next
following syllable is long: _ent_ (om-ent-i-e); cf. 'this prefix was
normally unstressed [...] when the next following syllable was long'".
> A word such as _ósanwe_ was a "new compound", made up in Aman, ofThis is a plausible hypothesis, but you've stated it as a fact. Please
> which the word _sanwe_ was clearly recognised by the Eldar.
qualify your hypotheses so as not to seem to be asserting what is in
fact not certain.
> Anyway, that does not explain why an (?Old) Quenya _ómentie_ wouldNo one has shown or claimed that _ómentie_ represents an "Old Quenya"
> yield _omentie_? Tolkien should have cited _ómentie_ when explaining
> _omentie_ in WJ, p. 367. Tolkien wrote "o-mentie" only.
form (with "Old" in the linguistic sense, i.e., as opposed to Middle or
Modern). The idea that _ómentie_ may represent an _older_ (but still
_linguistically Modern_) form of the _omentie_ is based solely on my
supposition that a questionable word written by Tolkien reads "later".
I've come to think that "like" (which Anders suggested and I also noted
as possible) is the more probable reading.
> According to the explanations given by Tolkien in "War of the Jewels",Given that Q _o-_/_ó-_ and T _wo-_/_vo-_ are known to have arisen from
> if _omentie_ was in the past (Old Quenya) _ómentie_, then the Telerin
> cognate word must have been _wómentie/vómentie_, but instead Tolkien
> gave _womentie/vomentie_.
a variably-lengthened element even in Common Eldarin, I fail to see how
the Quenya presence or absence of lengthening (due to stress) of the
prefix in _any_ form of Quenya can have any bearing on the Telerin
reflex. Telerin may, in the course of its development, simply have
selected the unlengthened (unstressed) form of the prefix for such
word-patterns as _womentie_, while Quenya did not.
Returning to the matter of the two attested forms _omentie_ (XI:367) /
_ómentie_ (the Sotheby's letter under discussion), both vs.
_omentielmo_, there are two types of variability we must deal with:
internal (within Quenya), and external (Tolkien). Hypothesizing reasons
for a difference between _ómentie_ but _omentielmo_ is not difficult,
since the two words have different syllable patterns. Thus a purely
internal variation seems quite sufficient. But for _omentie_ vs.
_ómentie_, while we can somewhat more vaguely construct a purely
internal hypothesis (basically, by simply appealing to the known
variability of stress in prefixes and chalking it up to individual
usage), we must also recognize that Tolkien was not always consistent
in marking vowel length, even within the same documents. Thus, for
instance, as I noted in my editorial notes on the _Ósanwe-kenta_
(VT39), Tolkien wrote both _osanwe_ and _ósanwe_ in that essay.
Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org
ho bios brachys, he de techne makre.
Ars longa, vita brevis.
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.
"I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take such
a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about."
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