341Re: _nahamna_ in the Atalante fragments
- Mar 8, 2003Ales Bican tence:
> Petri Tikka wrote:Isn't that what I just implied? So I do agree.
> > _-na_ in _samna_ "wooden post" <
> > _STAB-_ might be an adjectival ending later developing a nominal
> > meaning [...]
> > as also _namna_ "statute" < *_nam-_ "judge" (in _namin_ "I
> > judge",VT41:13).
> **Here _namna_ "statute" might be "something that is/was judged",
> what do you think?
> > These are minor points, but I would rather analyze _nahamna_ asI'm not actually certain, but I think I mean it here as a preposition
> > _na-_ "to" nominal prefix
> **What do you mean by "nominal prefix"?
used as a mark of location regardless of grammatical context, being
an independent word, like _under-_ in _under-world_.
> > + HAM *"ground" + _-na_ allative caseThat would be quite impossible in Finnish; adding case endings to nouns
> > ending. A similar construction is _nuhuinenna_ (SD:246) < _nu_
> > "under" (LR:398) + _huine_ "shadow" (LR:56) + _-nna_ allative
> > case ending. *_nahan_ "to ground" is indeed where ships come when
> > arriving at a harbour.
> **You may be right, though the word _nahan_ does not seem like
> a usual Q word. But then if a harbor can have a name like _Elenna_... : )
in order to form place names, I mean, because Finnish can't have
identical case endings adjacent (though different ones are possible),
and pre- and postpositions are rare.
This introduces a question to me:
How would one express grammatical movement to the place called _Elenna_
in Quenya? One possibility is adding the allative case _-nna_ again to
_Elenna_; it would produce a quite uneuphonic (*)*_Elennanna_, which
would be subject to haplology. Thus simply _Elenna_ could be a possibility.
Another is the preposition _na_ "to, towards" (V:374): *_na Elenna_, but
this would induce tautology with two nearby allative elements of the same
> > Prefixed prepositions (indicating grammaticalIf euphony is the problem, one may wonder why not *_na hamna_, with
> > position in a sentence) are not used in the context where this word is
> > found, but instead case endings (e.g. _kilyanna_ "to-chasm"). Suddenly
> > having such a form would be surprising indeed, and the explanation
> > of euphony seems fragile, since understanding the meaning is mostly
> > outweighing in non-poetic texts.
> **You may be right, but the form *_hamnanna_ is slightly odd -- too
> many nasals.
_na_ as a simple unglued preposition. I would consider analysing _na-_
in _nahamna_ as a grammatical preposition quite implausible, though not
impossible; I would suggest that you could update your analysis of the
_Atalante_ fragments on this matter.
>At any rate, there must be something unusual about theYes, but it was translated into Old English.
> word _nahamna_, because it is the only word that is not a proper name
> that was not translated by Alboin.
Petri Tikka Helsinki, Finland
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