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341Re: _nahamna_ in the Atalante fragments

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  • Petri Tikka
    Mar 8, 2003
      Ales Bican tence:

      > Petri Tikka wrote:
      > > _-na_ in _samna_ "wooden post" <
      > > _STAB-_ might be an adjectival ending later developing a nominal
      > > meaning [...]
      > [...]
      > > as also _namna_ "statute" < *_nam-_ "judge" (in _namin_ "I
      > > judge",VT41:13).
      > **Here _namna_ "statute" might be "something that is/was judged",
      > what do you think?

      Isn't that what I just implied? So I do agree.

      > > These are minor points, but I would rather analyze _nahamna_ as
      > > _na-_ "to" nominal prefix
      > **What do you mean by "nominal prefix"?

      I'm not actually certain, but I think I mean it here as a preposition
      used as a mark of location regardless of grammatical context, being
      an independent word, like _under-_ in _under-world_.

      > > + HAM *"ground" + _-na_ allative case
      > > ending. A similar construction is _nuhuinenna_ (SD:246) < _nu_
      > > "under" (LR:398) + _huine_ "shadow" (LR:56) + _-nna_ allative
      > > case ending. *_nahan_ "to ground" is indeed where ships come when
      > > arriving at a harbour.
      > **You may be right, though the word _nahan_ does not seem like
      > a usual Q word. But then if a harbor can have a name like _Elenna_... : )

      That would be quite impossible in Finnish; adding case endings to nouns
      in order to form place names, I mean, because Finnish can't have
      identical case endings adjacent (though different ones are possible),
      and pre- and postpositions are rare.

      This introduces a question to me:

      How would one express grammatical movement to the place called _Elenna_
      in Quenya? One possibility is adding the allative case _-nna_ again to
      _Elenna_; it would produce a quite uneuphonic (*)*_Elennanna_, which
      would be subject to haplology. Thus simply _Elenna_ could be a possibility.
      Another is the preposition _na_ "to, towards" (V:374): *_na Elenna_, but
      this would induce tautology with two nearby allative elements of the same

      > > Prefixed prepositions (indicating grammatical
      > > position in a sentence) are not used in the context where this word is
      > > found, but instead case endings (e.g. _kilyanna_ "to-chasm"). Suddenly
      > > having such a form would be surprising indeed, and the explanation
      > > of euphony seems fragile, since understanding the meaning is mostly
      > > outweighing in non-poetic texts.
      > **You may be right, but the form *_hamnanna_ is slightly odd -- too
      > many nasals.

      If euphony is the problem, one may wonder why not *_na hamna_, with
      _na_ as a simple unglued preposition. I would consider analysing _na-_
      in _nahamna_ as a grammatical preposition quite implausible, though not
      impossible; I would suggest that you could update your analysis of the
      _Atalante_ fragments on this matter.

      >At any rate, there must be something unusual about the
      > word _nahamna_, because it is the only word that is not a proper name
      > that was not translated by Alboin.

      Yes, but it was translated into Old English.

      Mára mesta,

      Petri Tikka Helsinki, Finland
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