299Re: [Lambengolmor] Re: Miqilis?
- Dec 28, 2002I wrote:
> **There is yet another one: _-is_ in _niqilis_ "fine snow" (66L) whichCarl responded:
> is from _is (iss-)_ "light snow" (43R).
> [This analysis of the form does not explain the _-l-_. It seems**However, the problem is that _niqi-_ is rather "white" than "snow".
> to me that the form is instead to be analyzed as _niqi-_ 'snow' + the
> (now familiar to us all!) diminutive ending _-lis_ 'fine'. Carl]
We have base NIQI "white" and derivatives _ninqe_ "white", _niqis (ss)_
(_niqi-_ "white" + _is_ "(light) snow"). As regards the _-l-_, it might
be a diminutive affix (cf. _katl_ "chuckle" Patrick mentioned) or an
[Actually, the _root_ NIQI means 'white'; but among the derivatives of
NIQI are many forms in _niqi-_ meaning 'snow'; while 'white' itself is
> > [N.B. All forms in the following discussion are from QL unless**Sure, but words would be easier to locate. I had, for instance,
> > otherwise noted.]
> **Page numbers would be welcome.
> [But not really necessary when citing (esp. a large number of) forms
> from the Lexicons, which are arranged alphabetically, with alphabetic
> cross-references. Carl]
problems with _Elwenillo_. And I must note, it was *not* an objection
[I would myself tend to give the page numbers, so no argument here. But
I do understand Pat's reason for omitting them from Lexicon references,
and wouldn't reject a post for not using them in that case. Carl]
> **'wind's eye' is not at all odd. Czech 'okno' "window" is related**I had not either, until I read Patrick's post. What I meant is that
> to 'oko' "eye". Cf. also Sanskrit 'gavákSa-' literally meaning
> "bull's eye".
> [Most English speakers have no knowledge of the origin of "window",
> since it has no apparent formal relationship to "eye". It is indeed
> an odd fact, when first learned. Carl]
it is not odd that words for "window" were connected with words for
Carl commented my suggested analysis of _eulitse_ and _melitse_:
> [I see nothing necessarily or even apparently feminine about 'darling'**You may be right, but since I am not sure I wrote that these words
> (which is itself in origin a diminutive form, 'little dear', as for
> _mel(i)-_ + _-(li)tse_); nor about 'lamb'. But both are clearly
might be analyzed thus and thus. I would not say they are clearly
diminutive and I thought this was your objection about David Salo's
attitude toward _Elpino_.
[But they _are_ diminutive: I mean, 'darling' (< 'dear-ling' =
'little dear') and 'lamb' = 'little sheep' _are_ diminutives. Carl]
At any rate, I see something feminine in "darling" and especially in
_melitse_. I do not know but I would rather imagine a woman as a
darling than a man, but sure I am a man. : ) Anyway, MELE seems
to be somewhat connected with feminines, cf. _mella_ "girl", which is
probably just *"beloved". And there is another thing I overlooked last
time. There is an adjective _melitsa_ "beloved, favourite". It is
possible that _melitse_ is derived from this adjective. In that case
the final _e_ would more likely be a feminine marker than a
[I can only say that I more often hear women call men "darling" than
vice versa. Carl]
As regards _eulitse_, it is unglossed in QL, so my interpretation was
necessarily a guess. This may not be your case, of course.
[I followed your lead on that; I know nothing more than what is in QL.
> It is not uncommon that diminutive endings are applied to**That is certainly possible. (By the way, the change you mention here
> specifically feminine forms; but that does not make the diminutive ending
> necessarily feminine. While interjecting, I'll also note that it may be
> that the ending in all these cases is in fact _-litse_ (not _-tse_), with
> syncope of *_-lilitse_ > _-litse_ in _melitse_ and _eulitse_, and of *_-
> rilitse_ > _-ritse_in _heritse_. Carl]
is normally called haplology, not syncope, if I am not mistaken, but I
understood what you meant.)
[Re: haplology: quite right. The term eluded me at the time, for some
Words are useless, especially sentences, they don't stand for anything,
how could they explain how I feel? (Madonna, _Bedtime Story_)
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