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299Re: [Lambengolmor] Re: Miqilis?

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  • Ales Bican
    Dec 28, 2002
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      I wrote:

      > **There is yet another one: _-is_ in _niqilis_ "fine snow" (66L) which
      > is from _is (iss-)_ "light snow" (43R).

      Carl responded:

      > [This analysis of the form does not explain the _-l-_. It seems
      > to me that the form is instead to be analyzed as _niqi-_ 'snow' + the
      > (now familiar to us all!) diminutive ending _-lis_ 'fine'. Carl]

      **However, the problem is that _niqi-_ is rather "white" than "snow".
      We have base NIQI "white" and derivatives _ninqe_ "white", _niqis (ss)_
      (_niqi-_ "white" + _is_ "(light) snow"). As regards the _-l-_, it might
      be a diminutive affix (cf. _katl_ "chuckle" Patrick mentioned) or an
      adjective marker.

      [Actually, the _root_ NIQI means 'white'; but among the derivatives of
      NIQI are many forms in _niqi-_ meaning 'snow'; while 'white' itself is
      _ninqe_. Carl]

      > > [N.B. All forms in the following discussion are from QL unless
      > > otherwise noted.]
      > **Page numbers would be welcome.
      > [But not really necessary when citing (esp. a large number of) forms
      > from the Lexicons, which are arranged alphabetically, with alphabetic
      > cross-references. Carl]

      **Sure, but words would be easier to locate. I had, for instance,
      problems with _Elwenillo_. And I must note, it was *not* an objection
      or complaint.

      [I would myself tend to give the page numbers, so no argument here. But
      I do understand Pat's reason for omitting them from Lexicon references,
      and wouldn't reject a post for not using them in that case. Carl]

      > **'wind's eye' is not at all odd. Czech 'okno' "window" is related
      > to 'oko' "eye". Cf. also Sanskrit 'gavákSa-' literally meaning
      > "bull's eye".
      > [Most English speakers have no knowledge of the origin of "window",
      > since it has no apparent formal relationship to "eye". It is indeed
      > an odd fact, when first learned. Carl]

      **I had not either, until I read Patrick's post. What I meant is that
      it is not odd that words for "window" were connected with words for

      Carl commented my suggested analysis of _eulitse_ and _melitse_:

      > [I see nothing necessarily or even apparently feminine about 'darling'
      > (which is itself in origin a diminutive form, 'little dear', as for
      > _mel(i)-_ + _-(li)tse_); nor about 'lamb'. But both are clearly
      > diminutive.

      **You may be right, but since I am not sure I wrote that these words
      might be analyzed thus and thus. I would not say they are clearly
      diminutive and I thought this was your objection about David Salo's
      attitude toward _Elpino_.

      [But they _are_ diminutive: I mean, 'darling' (< 'dear-ling' =
      'little dear') and 'lamb' = 'little sheep' _are_ diminutives. Carl]

      At any rate, I see something feminine in "darling" and especially in
      _melitse_. I do not know but I would rather imagine a woman as a
      darling than a man, but sure I am a man. : ) Anyway, MELE seems
      to be somewhat connected with feminines, cf. _mella_ "girl", which is
      probably just *"beloved". And there is another thing I overlooked last
      time. There is an adjective _melitsa_ "beloved, favourite". It is
      possible that _melitse_ is derived from this adjective. In that case
      the final _e_ would more likely be a feminine marker than a
      masculine one.

      [I can only say that I more often hear women call men "darling" than
      vice versa. Carl]

      As regards _eulitse_, it is unglossed in QL, so my interpretation was
      necessarily a guess. This may not be your case, of course.

      [I followed your lead on that; I know nothing more than what is in QL.

      > It is not uncommon that diminutive endings are applied to
      > specifically feminine forms; but that does not make the diminutive ending
      > necessarily feminine. While interjecting, I'll also note that it may be
      > that the ending in all these cases is in fact _-litse_ (not _-tse_), with
      > syncope of *_-lilitse_ > _-litse_ in _melitse_ and _eulitse_, and of *_-
      > rilitse_ > _-ritse_in _heritse_. Carl]

      **That is certainly possible. (By the way, the change you mention here
      is normally called haplology, not syncope, if I am not mistaken, but I
      understood what you meant.)

      [Re: haplology: quite right. The term eluded me at the time, for some
      reason. Carl]

      Ales Bican

      Words are useless, especially sentences, they don't stand for anything,
      how could they explain how I feel? (Madonna, _Bedtime Story_)
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