Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

254Re: [Lambengolmor] "Subjunctive"

Expand Messages
  • Boris Shapiro
    Oct 2, 2002
    • 0 Attachment

      Tuesday, October 1, 2002, 8:21:16 PM, CFH wrote:

      CFH> From the context, Tolkien's own note, and the examples given
      CFH> there, what is intended is clearly what is sometimes called the
      CFH> "hortatory" or "volitive" subjunctive,

      You mean the context, the note, and the examples present in VT43?

      [Correct. CFH]

      Then I sadly find it not obvious. But I suggest you had more data in your
      disposal to figure that out, hadn't you?

      [No. What is said in _VT_ 43 is based solely on the evidence presented in
      that issue. CFH]

      That's OK. I simply cannot make the same deduction out of the VT43 material
      alone and I would appreciate if you help me.

      As you may guess, the question of Quenya conditional mood is of great
      interest for us, and several questions rise immediately: what do you
      think, what makes the "_na_ preced. verb" construction imply a false
      condition (that is contrary to the fact)?

      [It was not said that the _na_ + verb construction is "conditional". It was
      said that it is a "subjunctive or imperative" construction. The hortatory or
      volitive subjunctive nature of the construction follows from Tolkien's
      statement on it: "_na_ preced[ing] = 'let it be': _na aire_ 'be holy'", and
      from the known meaning of the construction as used in the prayers. When one
      says "let it be", one is exhorting others to make some desired condition so,
      and/or expressing a wish that some desired condition will arise. In both
      cases, if the desired condition is not contrary to known fact, there seems
      little point in expressing the wish, except perhaps in the sense that one
      hopes that some present condition will persist throughout future history;
      but even here, there is an implication that that persistence is not assured,
      and so that its persistence is not a known fact. Does that help? CFH]

      Namaarie! S.Y., Elenhil Laiquendo [Boris Shapiro]

      : linde nar i oomar tolesse vanwa yaamala :
    • Show all 12 messages in this topic