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234Internal or external history? (was: Bilabial V in Quenya)

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  • gentlebeldin
    Sep 9, 2002
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      Your [Petri Tikka's] examples are interesting, but the impression is
      slightly marred by a certain vagueness in terminology. Are you
      speaking of internal or external history of Quenya? An ill-defined
      (and undefinable, in my humble opinion) term like "mature Quenya"
      makes it easy to confuse the two very different matters.

      --- In lambengolmor@y..., "Petri Tikka" <kari.j.tikka@w...> wrote:

      > 2. KT is a common consonant cluster in Q (e.g. _ekta-_, _mekta_ and
      > _palukta_), but it is unacceptable in the phonology of both Finnish
      > and mature Quenya. Earlier KT developed to HT in both languages,
      > e.g. a body of _kaksi_ "two" _kaht-_ < *_kakte_ in Finnish and
      > _ehte_ "spear" from EKTE in Quenya (V:355).

      The development EKTE > _ehte_ reflected in Etymologies was internal,
      obviously.

      What does the acronym "Q" mean? Qenya, Quenya or the Qenya Lexicon?
      Your "(Q)" is used like a reference, but it isn't one of the common
      abbreviations (and a reference without a page number would be Elfling
      style).

      > [...]
      > I can not currently think of any other firm examples of change
      > in the external history of the Quenya phonology

      Why "other"? You're explicitly speaking of external history only now.

      Hans

      [The "Q" in Petri's post was clearly a slip for "QL", an error which your
      humble but human moderators ought to have caught. The forms _ekta-_,
      _mekta_, and _palukta_ cited by Petri are all from QL. The term "mature
      Quenya" is a well-known Fauskangerism referring in an external sense
      to Quenya in accord with _The Lord of the Rings_ and other late
      writings, and I didn't find Petri's use of it in his post to be either
      confusing or inaccurate. And Petri's point stands: the combination
      KT was allowed in the Qenya of the Lost Tales era (as in the three
      examples cited), but was not retained in Quenya of the LotR era
      and later, where it "became" (in both internal and external
      senses) HT. -- Patrick Wynne]
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