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153Re:[Lambengolmor] -Vndo

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  • David Kiltz
    Jul 29, 2002
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      On Freitag, Juli 26, 2002, at 11:06 Uhr, Ales Bican [in mess. 151]

      >David Kiltz [in mess. 115] wrote:
      >[the beginning snipped]
      >>In short, I would suggest that _Vndo_ is a
      >>"personalized" form of a participle past active that should end in
      >**Your interpretation is interesting. However, I always treated _ndo_
      >like a strengtened form of _-no_ (e.g. in _tirno_ "watcher", TIR).
      >This _-no_ seems to be related to _-on_ (from _-nd_, cf. _Sauron_ being
      >from older _Thaurond-_, see Letter #297).
      >A similar strengtening was already quoted by Fredrik: Tolkien wrote in
      >WJ: "Other forms of this suffix [_-ro_] were _-rô_ added to stem, with
      >or without _n_-infixion; and _-rdo_ > _rd_." (371). The suffix _rdo_
      >would then be the strengtened form.

      Strengthening is certainly a possibility. It still seems possible that
      we have a connection with "past tense" though, I think. Maybe even in
      _tirno_ (of that isn't, indeed, a typo for +_tirmo_).

      >By the way, it is known that _-nde_ is a feminine counterpart of _-ndo_
      >(see _Therinde_, PM:333).

      Yes, but we also have _melisse_ corresponding to _melindo_ [V:372, sub

      > It is also known that there is _-re_ being a
      >counterpart of _-ro_. Furthermore, there is _-me_ being a counterpart
      >of _-mo_, and _-e_ of _-o_. But what about _-ne_, which could be a
      >counterpart of _-no_, does it exist? I am not aware of it;

      Maybe we have it in _(Tar) Elestirne_ "Lady of the Star-brow" [UT:184,
      205, 284] containing a root STIR-. Unfortunately, I'm not able to cite
      where I found the root STIR- but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere.
      Maybe someone can help me out ?

      David Kiltz

      [I have checked my photocopies of the _Etymologies_, and the form is
      without question _tirno_ in both its occurrences: Q. _halatir(no)_ '"fish-
      watcher", kingfisher' (V:386 s.v. SKAL-(2) 'small fish') and PQ _khalatirno_
      'fish-watcher' (with final vowel marked with both macron and breve) >
      Q. _halatir_ (_-tirnen_) 'kingfisher' (V:394 s.v. TIR- 'watch, guard').

      The best evidence against interpretation of agentive _-ndo_ as
      "a 'personalized' form of a participle past active" is the fact that
      agentives in _-ndo_ seem instead to be clearly formed from the
      _aorist_ stem. Aorist stems in Quenya end in either short _-i_ (as
      aorist pl. _kari-r_ in _i karir quettar ómainen_ 'those who form words
      with voices' (XI:391), or in _-a_ as in Q. _ava-_ *'refuse, forbid',
      < _*aba-_ (Tolkien says of the root *ABA: "As a verbal stem it
      developed the form _*aba-_ (with connecting vowel _a_ in the
      aorist)", XI:370).

      Thus _úcarindor_ 'sinners, evil-doers' in _Aia María_ III, IV (VT43:27-8)
      can be seen to contain the same aorist stem _kari-_ 'make, do' seen
      in _i karir quettar ómainen_ cited above; _úcarindor_ indicates people
      who habitually sin, as a general fact without specific reference to
      past or present. _runando_ 'redeemer' in the Litany of Loreto (VT44:12)
      must be an example of an a-stem aorist. In some instances Tolkien
      hesitated between giving a verb an i-stem aorist or an a-stem aorist;
      hence we see both _lucindor_ and _lucandor_ 'those who trespass,
      transgressors' in the earlier drafts of the Átaremma.

      -- Patrick Wynne]

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