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RE: [lacrosseliveaction] Useful Education

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  • Jen Creager
    Since there seems to be a call for red-blooded status holding citizen of the Camarilla perhaps I can assist in this matter... I will summarize for the sake
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 10, 2011
      Since there seems to be a call for "red-blooded status holding citizen" of the Camarilla perhaps I can assist in this matter...

      I will summarize for the sake of paper...

      To be a Prince of the Camarilla you must be an acknowledged member of the Camarilla, be of a clan that is allowed to be a Prince, and have the strength to hold the throne.

      Lets pretend for a just a second that Vivek were actually able to claim Praxis...

      When there are multiple claimants to the throne who meet the above criteria the praxis is considered contested - which means that neither of the claimants can exercise the powers that come with being Prince - including bloodhunting someone.

      Thus, even if Vivek were eligible - the bloodhunt on Murphy McManus would be invalid.

       Because the bloodhunt on Vivek Cross occurred prior to the contestation of Praxis - that bloodhunt is valid regardless. Even were Vivek to meet all the criteria of being Prince and manage to claim the throne... the bloodhunt would still stand.

      I hope that helps clear things up for those individuals who required such explanation.

      ~Rachel Violet Eiken

      p.s. since Vivek pointed it out perhaps he would be so kind as to explain the laws of Elysium for those who do not know them? While we are at it perhaps he can also explain the duties of Archons and their relationship to Camarilla domains & Princes to ensure there is no confusion there either.

      *burn to learn
      (ooc etiquette, cam lore, cam law as needed)

      To: lacrosseliveaction@yahoogroups.com
      From: Louis.Kacz@...
      Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 23:09:36 -0600
      Subject: Re: [lacrosseliveaction] Useful Education

       
      Thanks for coming out and saying you're going to hide behind the Cam politics and the red tape and send your peons out to do the dirty work since it's your neck on the line.

      What's really funny is we're still waiting for a red-blooded status holding Cam citizen to answer the million dollar question.

      Or is the real million dollar question: is this just a flimsy pretext to attempt to show how devoted to the Cam you are to all the archons out there so someone might come save your ass?

      V


      On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Jason Mills <medici_pharaoh@...> wrote:
       

      May as well make some of this useful, eh?
      As an educational aside for the newer members of the Camarilla who've recently arrived in the domain,

      Can anyone tell us why Vivek's attempt to claim Praxis is invalid?

      Further, if he could make a valid Praxis attempt, can anyone tell me why he could not call for a blood-hunt?

      Finally, can anyone suggest what a Prince might do to prevent a war between Anarchs and the Camarilla when confronted with situations such as the ones Vivek has suggested?

      In service,

      Fox
      Prince of La Crosse





      --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Louis K <Louis.Kacz@...> wrote:

      From: Louis K <Louis.Kacz@...>
      Subject: Re: [lacrosseliveaction] Blood Hunt of Vivek Cross
      To: lacrosseliveaction@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:44 AM

       
      Prince Fuckbag,

      How about tellin the truth to your citizens.  Starting with admitting that you're an asshole and the puppet of the Tremere.  You blatantly ignore the laws of elysium and allow your camarilla citizens to assault, attack, and otherwise destroy anyone at any time.  I've started to lose count of how often I am assulted, harassed, or otherwise attacked coming from, going to, or even attending Elysium.  If this domain is truly Camarilla I am a monkeys fucking uncle.  You assholes just use the convenience of status to ensure archons will show up to save your asses when you fuck up. 

      You're fucking retarded if you think that you can order a hit by an Anarch on a Cam citizen--and yes Remi had recognized status when you asked me to kill him.  Only as an afterthought when I told you you were fucked in the head for wanting to start a genuine war between the Anarchs and the Cam did you Bloodhunt him. 

      Also obviously have no clue about the history of our clans--want a fucking war with me dog-boy you got one.  And don't delude yourself into thinking that you can hide behind the other members of your domain and continue being the cunt that you are--they won't protect you and I will find you.

      One last thing: Praxis

      And in my first order of business as Prince, I would like to order the Bloodhunt of Murphy McManus for atttempting to start a war between the local anarchs and the Cam as well as for violations of the Masquerade--I mean how many of us have a death certificate with our name on it?  Surprised McManus?  Check the internet and search your name--Murphy McManus is deceased.

      Now nut up or shut up McManus.

      Vivek Cross

      Prince of La Crosse


      On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Jason Mills <medici_pharaoh@...> wrote:
       
      Citizens of the Camarilla,

      After a lengthy investigation by officers of the court, it is with heavy heart that I must make this announcement.
      For attempting to assassinate and assault members of this domain, for aiding individuals known to be bloodhunted, and for his previous violations of Elysium, the kindred known as Vivek Cross, or "V" of clan Ravnos is hereby bloodhunted within the domain of La Crosse.
      Unhappiness, apathy, or dissatisfaction are no excuse for violations against our most basic of traditions.

      In service,

      Prince Fox
      La Crosse, WI






    • Jason Mills
      Indeed, fine answers all. Now to answer Vivek s charges against me, that I blatantly ignore the laws of elysium and allow...camarilla citizens to assault,
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 11, 2011
        Indeed, fine answers all.

        Now to answer Vivek's charges against me, that I "blatantly ignore the laws of elysium and allow...camarilla citizens to assault, attack, and otherwise destroy anyone at any time."

        I have never ignored the laws of Elysium (indeed, Vivek, this falls more under your purview).  I have never given an order to assault, attack, or destroy anyone at any time.  If you have been assaulted more times than you can count while at, entering, or traveling to Elysium I must wonder why word of this was never brought to me or other officers of this court.  There was a time when I would have looked into the matter for you, but that time is now passed.

        That Remi had not been blood-hunted at the time you were offered Rites of Destruction over him to prove your worth to the domain is incorrect.  An announcement had been publicly made which all the officers of the Court were aware of, in particular the Harpy.  Baroness Zero who had asked what you could do to redeem yourself in the eyes of the domain was also made aware of this fact, and you were given an opportunity to prove yourself.  Granted, no announcement was made over the forums here as we didn't want Remi to simply go to ground.
        At no point did I ever order or demand that you do this thing.  It was an option presented to you, and I was open to other options but none had been presented to me at that time or at any later date.

        Rather than simply let me know that this was not a task you were willing to undertake you attempted to deceive the domain into believing that you had killed Remi.  This deception further demonstrated that you could not be trusted among the Camarilla.

        I told you - to your face - what you could have done, that I was open to you finding ways to mend the situation, but in the meantime that your Toleration within the domain was for the time being at an end.

        Rather than take a hint, much like an impertinent child unwilling to learn from their mistake you continued on the same doomed path of revenge against perceived slights.

        You are at a crossroads, Vivek.  Continue on.  Attempt to assassinate me.  Attack the domain.  Secure your blood-hunted status throughout the entirety of the Camarilla.
        Or you can move on.  Stay away from La Crosse and find something better to do with your time.
        I suspect you can't and won't, and that is your choice, lad.  You're responsible for your fate, just as you always have been.

        Prince Fox
        La Crosse, WI


        --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Jen Creager <silmecoire@...> wrote:

        From: Jen Creager <silmecoire@...>
        Subject: RE: [lacrosseliveaction] Useful Education
        To: lacrosseliveaction@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: winona_stlist@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 12:23 AM

         

        Since there seems to be a call for "red-blooded status holding citizen" of the Camarilla perhaps I can assist in this matter...

        I will summarize for the sake of paper...

        To be a Prince of the Camarilla you must be an acknowledged member of the Camarilla, be of a clan that is allowed to be a Prince, and have the strength to hold the throne.

        Lets pretend for a just a second that Vivek were actually able to claim Praxis...

        When there are multiple claimants to the throne who meet the above criteria the praxis is considered contested - which means that neither of the claimants can exercise the powers that come with being Prince - including bloodhunting someone.

        Thus, even if Vivek were eligible - the bloodhunt on Murphy McManus would be invalid.

         Because the bloodhunt on Vivek Cross occurred prior to the contestation of Praxis - that bloodhunt is valid regardless. Even were Vivek to meet all the criteria of being Prince and manage to claim the throne... the bloodhunt would still stand.

        I hope that helps clear things up for those individuals who required such explanation.

        ~Rachel Violet Eiken

        p.s. since Vivek pointed it out perhaps he would be so kind as to explain the laws of Elysium for those who do not know them? While we are at it perhaps he can also explain the duties of Archons and their relationship to Camarilla domains & Princes to ensure there is no confusion there either.

        *burn to learn
        (ooc etiquette, cam lore, cam law as needed)


        To: lacrosseliveaction@yahoogroups.com
        From: Louis.Kacz@...
        Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 23:09:36 -0600
        Subject: Re: [lacrosseliveaction] Useful Education

         
        Thanks for coming out and saying you're going to hide behind the Cam politics and the red tape and send your peons out to do the dirty work since it's your neck on the line.

        What's really funny is we're still waiting for a red-blooded status holding Cam citizen to answer the million dollar question.

        Or is the real million dollar question: is this just a flimsy pretext to attempt to show how devoted to the Cam you are to all the archons out there so someone might come save your ass?

        V


        On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Jason Mills <medici_pharaoh@...> wrote:
         

        May as well make some of this useful, eh?
        As an educational aside for the newer members of the Camarilla who've recently arrived in the domain,

        Can anyone tell us why Vivek's attempt to claim Praxis is invalid?

        Further, if he could make a valid Praxis attempt, can anyone tell me why he could not call for a blood-hunt?

        Finally, can anyone suggest what a Prince might do to prevent a war between Anarchs and the Camarilla when confronted with situations such as the ones Vivek has suggested?

        In service,

        Fox
        Prince of La Crosse





        --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Louis K <Louis.Kacz@...> wrote:

        From: Louis K <Louis.Kacz@...>
        Subject: Re: [lacrosseliveaction] Blood Hunt of Vivek Cross
        To: lacrosseliveaction@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:44 AM

         
        Prince Fuckbag,

        How about tellin the truth to your citizens.  Starting with admitting that you're an asshole and the puppet of the Tremere.  You blatantly ignore the laws of elysium and allow your camarilla citizens to assault, attack, and otherwise destroy anyone at any time.  I've started to lose count of how often I am assulted, harassed, or otherwise attacked coming from, going to, or even attending Elysium.  If this domain is truly Camarilla I am a monkeys fucking uncle.  You assholes just use the convenience of status to ensure archons will show up to save your asses when you fuck up. 

        You're fucking retarded if you think that you can order a hit by an Anarch on a Cam citizen--and yes Remi had recognized status when you asked me to kill him.  Only as an afterthought when I told you you were fucked in the head for wanting to start a genuine war between the Anarchs and the Cam did you Bloodhunt him. 

        Also obviously have no clue about the history of our clans--want a fucking war with me dog-boy you got one.  And don't delude yourself into thinking that you can hide behind the other members of your domain and continue being the cunt that you are--they won't protect you and I will find you.

        One last thing: Praxis

        And in my first order of business as Prince, I would like to order the Bloodhunt of Murphy McManus for atttempting to start a war between the local anarchs and the Cam as well as for violations of the Masquerade--I mean how many of us have a death certificate with our name on it?  Surprised McManus?  Check the internet and search your name--Murphy McManus is deceased.

        Now nut up or shut up McManus.

        Vivek Cross

        Prince of La Crosse


        On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Jason Mills <medici_pharaoh@...> wrote:
         
        Citizens of the Camarilla,

        After a lengthy investigation by officers of the court, it is with heavy heart that I must make this announcement.
        For attempting to assassinate and assault members of this domain, for aiding individuals known to be bloodhunted, and for his previous violations of Elysium, the kindred known as Vivek Cross, or "V" of clan Ravnos is hereby bloodhunted within the domain of La Crosse.
        Unhappiness, apathy, or dissatisfaction are no excuse for violations against our most basic of traditions.

        In service,

        Prince Fox
        La Crosse, WI







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