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Re: Cynthia McKinney in LA August 7th to tell Us the TRUTH

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  • jdemaegt@sbcglobal.net
    I think that what caused the protests against the War on Vietnam to build up was the re-institution of the DRAFT. People did not much care very much about the
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 31, 2011
      I think that what caused the protests against the War on Vietnam to
      build up was the re-institution of the DRAFT.
      People did not much care very much about the War on Vietnam.
      And people did not really care much about the killing and oppression of
      Vietnamese.
      BUT people Sure Did CARE A LOT about themselves (and their
      children etc.) Being Drafted.
      Oh and in the Vietnamese War era there was not the UNITED (and totally
      controlled) "Anti-War Movement". And in the Vietnamese War era there were
      various Anti-War actions like street shutdowns and even some work place shut
      downs (i.e. STRIKES) and there were boycotts and campus shutdowns etc.
      In todays' - much, much Much more organized "Anti-War Movement" there
      are much Better "Rallies" - with "Permits" asked for from and given by the
      very government entities that are waging the Wars and all those worthless
      actions like work stoppages and campus shutdowns and boycotts are no longer
      needed in today's much more efficient "Anti-War Movement". Today the
      "Anti-War Movement" and the government entities that are waging the Wars are
      Working Together. So now the "modern" "Anti-War Movement" and the government
      War machine are working together and they are UNITED! Yea we have Won!
      Today it is the Speeches that are the important thing in the "Anti-War
      Movement". BUT Boy those SPEECHES ARE GREAT. And WOW the Egos that get
      built by those SPEECHES and the tiny power that is increased in today's much
      more effecient "Anti-War Movement"
      So things are Much better in today's "Anti-War Movement" than in the
      Vietnamese War era. We have Won!
      Jim "The current Wars on Afghanistan and on Iraq are much Smarter Wars
      than the Vietnamese War - No DRAFT in today's Wars so very few people care
      about ending today's Wars. and NOTHING is really being done to end the Wars
      on Afghanistand and on Iraq." D.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Barry" <bschier@...>
      To: <change-links@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:02 AM
      Subject: [change-links] Re: Cynthia McKinney in LA August 7th!


      > Although I have not held a membership card from organized political
      > tendency since 1986, I have held the belief -- ever since leading protests
      > against the U.S. war in Vietnam while a high school student -- that
      > pressure resulting from protests against foreign interventions / wars can
      > stay the hand of the guilty government. And I remember that it took about
      > 8 years for protests to build up from relatively small pickets and
      > teach-ins to mass marches which (along with the heroic fight of the
      > Vietnamese and other international factors) forced Washington to withdraw
      > from Indochina. And, then, like now, there were pseudo-Marxists and
      > pseudo-radicals who were never part of building (or even supporting the
      > building) of such protests.
      > -- Barry Schier
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In change-links@yahoogroups.com, Cort Greene <cort.greene@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> *Sorry Barry I don't support the intervention and certainly the
      >> International Marxist Tendency does not and I can understand your
      >> confusion
      >> about politics, what anti-imperialism is from your SWP days and from
      >> what a
      >> sect is but it sounds like you are using the "Old Uncle Joe Cannon"
      >> attacks
      >> that he use against the tendency in the late 1930's and 40's when he used
      >> Healy to attacked them in England.*
      >>
      >> *Turns out Grant et al were mostly correct in their analysis then and
      >> now,
      >> thats why they have organized in 42 countries and are well respected in
      >> many
      >> others.*
      >> **
      >> *Now Workers World, PSL and the "book club" SWP are very small and
      >> insignificant, their days are numbered that people will listen at all or
      >> do
      >> to them is proven as fact.*
      >> **
      >> *Cort*
      >> **
      >> * One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can
      >> answer in an hour.*
      >> *--Nikolai Lenin*
      >>
      >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Barry <bschier@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> > **
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Yes, Qaddafi, despite his demagoguery about leading a Libyan "Green
      >> > Revolution," is a functionary of the capitalist class and overturn of
      >> > that
      >> > government by the masses would represent opening of democratic space to
      >> > organize, etc. as well as more rights for Libya's oppressed
      >> > nationalities
      >> > (e.g., Berbers and others).
      >> >
      >> > Moreover, as someone who built / participated in the march / rally of
      >> > Georgians for the E.R.A. just prior to moving to Los Angeles, I
      >> > recognize
      >> > the McKinney name as deeply tied with Atlanta Democratic politics--
      >> > although
      >> > the political career and freeway named after Rep. Billy McKinney
      >> > started
      >> > later and his advice to daughter Cynthia to run for office was still
      >> > later
      >> > and her change of colors to "Green" with little or no change in
      >> > politics /
      >> > perspective occurring even later in time.
      >> >
      >> > However, overturn of ANY government by the United States and its
      >> > allies --
      >> > whether under Bush's terminology of "regime change" or any other
      >> > phrase --
      >> > would, in addition to the stated aims of the imperialist bombing, etc.
      >> > campaign, establish a precedent for further intervention/s elsewhere.
      >> >
      >> > How ironic that Greene, a spokesperson / apologist for a tiny sect
      >> > calling
      >> > itself "Marxist," should condemn the others for their "criminal actions
      >> > in
      >> > helping with the demise of anti-war movement" while not condemning /
      >> > organizing against a real war being waged by the U.S. government and
      >> > its
      >> > proxies (especially NATO) in northern Africa.
      >> >
      >> > U.S. Hands Off Libya!!
      >> >
      >> > -- Barry Schier--
      >> > *A means can be justified only by its end. But the end in its turn
      >> > needs
      >> > to be justified.
      >> >
      >> > (Also quoted as "The end may justify the means as long as there is
      >> > something that justifies the end.")
      >> >
      >> > Leon Trotsky
      >> >
      >> > Their Morals and Ours (1938)*
      >> >
    • Scott Peden
      The draft had been going on for some time by the time I had to report to the induction office. Nixon cancelled it the day before the point of no return, for
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 31, 2011
        The draft had been going on for some time by the time I had to report to
        the induction office. Nixon cancelled it the day before the point of no
        return, for me.

        What was big news then was the media was showing coffins coming home,
        which was made illegal by the last 2 WH Administrations.

        The media obviously was working for someone else's profit then the MIC,
        and GE handled that by purchasing a large portion of MBC and I think CBS
        was the other one, as well as purchasing a lot of food stuff companies
        that already advertised on the media, so they could 'refuse advertising'
        when they were a major advertiser, and raise hell in the Board Room at
        the same time.

        Back then as is now, all Peace protestors are displayed as nuts, dirty
        unwashed law breakers, it wasn't till the coffins entered the house of
        the middle class that the middle class got on the anti war movement.
        Seeing how many of our soldiers came home dead every day was too much
        for them, it would have been worse if they'd HAD TO LOOK at the
        disabled/maimed soldiers too.

        Scott

        On 7/31/2011 3:09 AM, jdemaegt@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > I think that what caused the protests against the War on Vietnam to
        > build up was the re-institution of the DRAFT.
        > People did not much care very much about the War on Vietnam.
        > And people did not really care much about the killing and oppression of
        > Vietnamese.
        > BUT people Sure Did CARE A LOT about themselves (and their
        > children etc.) Being Drafted.
        > Oh and in the Vietnamese War era there was not the UNITED (and totally
        > controlled) "Anti-War Movement". And in the Vietnamese War era there were
        > various Anti-War actions like street shutdowns and even some work
        > place shut
        > downs (i.e. STRIKES) and there were boycotts and campus shutdowns etc.
        > In todays' - much, much Much more organized "Anti-War Movement" there
        > are much Better "Rallies" - with "Permits" asked for from and given by
        > the
        > very government entities that are waging the Wars and all those worthless
        > actions like work stoppages and campus shutdowns and boycotts are no
        > longer
        > needed in today's much more efficient "Anti-War Movement". Today the
        > "Anti-War Movement" and the government entities that are waging the
        > Wars are
        > Working Together. So now the "modern" "Anti-War Movement" and the
        > government
        > War machine are working together and they are UNITED! Yea we have Won!
        > Today it is the Speeches that are the important thing in the "Anti-War
        > Movement". BUT Boy those SPEECHES ARE GREAT. And WOW the Egos that get
        > built by those SPEECHES and the tiny power that is increased in
        > today's much
        > more effecient "Anti-War Movement"
        > So things are Much better in today's "Anti-War Movement" than in the
        > Vietnamese War era. We have Won!
        > Jim "The current Wars on Afghanistan and on Iraq are much Smarter Wars
        > than the Vietnamese War - No DRAFT in today's Wars so very few people care
        > about ending today's Wars. and NOTHING is really being done to end the
        > Wars
        > on Afghanistand and on Iraq." D.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Barry" <bschier@... <mailto:bschier%40yahoo.com>>
        > To: <change-links@yahoogroups.com <mailto:change-links%40yahoogroups.com>>
        > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:02 AM
        > Subject: [change-links] Re: Cynthia McKinney in LA August 7th!
        >
        > > Although I have not held a membership card from organized political
        > > tendency since 1986, I have held the belief -- ever since leading
        > protests
        > > against the U.S. war in Vietnam while a high school student -- that
        > > pressure resulting from protests against foreign interventions /
        > wars can
        > > stay the hand of the guilty government. And I remember that it took
        > about
        > > 8 years for protests to build up from relatively small pickets and
        > > teach-ins to mass marches which (along with the heroic fight of the
        > > Vietnamese and other international factors) forced Washington to
        > withdraw
        > > from Indochina. And, then, like now, there were pseudo-Marxists and
        > > pseudo-radicals who were never part of building (or even supporting the
        > > building) of such protests.
        > > -- Barry Schier
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In change-links@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:change-links%40yahoogroups.com>, Cort Greene <cort.greene@...>
        > wrote:
        > >>
        > >> *Sorry Barry I don't support the intervention and certainly the
        > >> International Marxist Tendency does not and I can understand your
        > >> confusion
        > >> about politics, what anti-imperialism is from your SWP days and from
        > >> what a
        > >> sect is but it sounds like you are using the "Old Uncle Joe Cannon"
        > >> attacks
        > >> that he use against the tendency in the late 1930's and 40's when
        > he used
        > >> Healy to attacked them in England.*
        > >>
        > >> *Turns out Grant et al were mostly correct in their analysis then and
        > >> now,
        > >> thats why they have organized in 42 countries and are well respected in
        > >> many
        > >> others.*
        > >> **
        > >> *Now Workers World, PSL and the "book club" SWP are very small and
        > >> insignificant, their days are numbered that people will listen at
        > all or
        > >> do
        > >> to them is proven as fact.*
        > >> **
        > >> *Cort*
        > >> **
        > >> * One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can
        > >> answer in an hour.*
        > >> *--Nikolai Lenin*
        > >>
        > >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Barry <bschier@...> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> > **
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > Yes, Qaddafi, despite his demagoguery about leading a Libyan "Green
        > >> > Revolution," is a functionary of the capitalist class and overturn of
        > >> > that
        > >> > government by the masses would represent opening of democratic
        > space to
        > >> > organize, etc. as well as more rights for Libya's oppressed
        > >> > nationalities
        > >> > (e.g., Berbers and others).
        > >> >
        > >> > Moreover, as someone who built / participated in the march / rally of
        > >> > Georgians for the E.R.A. just prior to moving to Los Angeles, I
        > >> > recognize
        > >> > the McKinney name as deeply tied with Atlanta Democratic politics--
        > >> > although
        > >> > the political career and freeway named after Rep. Billy McKinney
        > >> > started
        > >> > later and his advice to daughter Cynthia to run for office was still
        > >> > later
        > >> > and her change of colors to "Green" with little or no change in
        > >> > politics /
        > >> > perspective occurring even later in time.
        > >> >
        > >> > However, overturn of ANY government by the United States and its
        > >> > allies --
        > >> > whether under Bush's terminology of "regime change" or any other
        > >> > phrase --
        > >> > would, in addition to the stated aims of the imperialist bombing,
        > etc.
        > >> > campaign, establish a precedent for further intervention/s elsewhere.
        > >> >
        > >> > How ironic that Greene, a spokesperson / apologist for a tiny sect
        > >> > calling
        > >> > itself "Marxist," should condemn the others for their "criminal
        > actions
        > >> > in
        > >> > helping with the demise of anti-war movement" while not condemning /
        > >> > organizing against a real war being waged by the U.S. government and
        > >> > its
        > >> > proxies (especially NATO) in northern Africa.
        > >> >
        > >> > U.S. Hands Off Libya!!
        > >> >
        > >> > -- Barry Schier--
        > >> > *A means can be justified only by its end. But the end in its turn
        > >> > needs
        > >> > to be justified.
        > >> >
        > >> > (Also quoted as "The end may justify the means as long as there is
        > >> > something that justifies the end.")
        > >> >
        > >> > Leon Trotsky
        > >> >
        > >> > Their Morals and Ours (1938)*
        > >> >
        >
        >


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