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RE: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 170

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  • ted.willis@gp-B81063.nhs.uk
    please unsubscribe! ... From: p=NHS NATIONAL INT;a=NHS;c=GB;dda:RFC-822=ksurfschool(a)egroups.com; Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:36 To: p=NHS NATIONAL
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: p=NHS NATIONAL
      INT;a=NHS;c=GB;dda:RFC-822=ksurfschool(a)egroups.com;
      Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:36
      To: p=NHS NATIONAL INT;a=NHS;c=GB;dda:RFC-822=ksurfschool(a)egroups.com;
      Subject: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 170



      There are 25 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. RE: Random Thoughts
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      2. kitesurfing in Florida??
      From: gigglewithme@...
      3. RE: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      4. Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: kiteboard@...
      5. Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
      6. RE: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      7. Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power
      From: ebeard@...
      8. Re: kitesurfing in Florida??
      From: "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@...>
      9. RE: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable powe r
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      10. Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: kiteboard@...
      11. RE: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      12. Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: kiteboard@...
      13. RE: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      14. Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Colin Gowland" <colin-gowland@...>
      15. Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Colin Gowland" <colin-gowland@...>
      16. Re: Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: kiteboard@...
      17. Re: Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
      18. Re: kitesurfing in Florida??
      From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
      19. Re: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power
      From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
      20. Re: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power
      From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
      21. Re: Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: kiteboard@...
      22. Re: kitesurfing in Florida??
      From: "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@...>
      23. Re: Re: Overpowered or not?
      From: "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@...>
      24. Re: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power
      From: ebeard@...
      25. Re: kitesurfing in Florida??
      From: gigglewithme@...


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 1
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:13:34 -0700
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      Subject: RE: Random Thoughts

      Dave,

      Yes, it was a blast, especially since I haven't been able to kite surf in a
      month due to snow and frozen lakes (I live in Utah). I weigh 175 LBS. If
      you do go to St. Martin, you can rent a kite from CNS (located on Orient
      Beach) if the wind conditions are too strong for your 9.0. I personally
      would have been okay with my 7.5 and 20 Meter lines in 30 knot conditions,
      but I understand that there are days when the wind exceeds 35 knots.

      There was one light day where I had just enough power to stay planing using
      my 15.5. I was wishing for the new 20.5 that day.

      Kenny

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dave Raue [mailto:theraves@...]
      Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 4:31 PM
      To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Random Thoughts


      WOW, outstanding!!

      Sounds great, getting out every day seems like a dream! Upwind isn't a
      problem. I got a 15.5 and 9.0 (and various smaller foils), and the 15.5
      works for me up to high teens and I've never had enough wind to even use the
      9.0 since I got it! Previous "small" kite was Mossie 5.5. I got the same
      board as you with Tantrums and weigh about 200. If the 9.0 is my smallest
      kite am I gonna get hammered? How much do you weigh?

      -D
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 11:17 AM
      Subject: RE: [ksurfschool] Random Thoughts


      > Dave,
      >
      > I went kite surfing 6 days in St. Martin. On the first day, the wind was
      > somewhat gusty and blowing around 25 knots. I went out on my 7.5 and had
      > some great jumps. The next day it was stronger (around 30 knots) and I
      used
      > my 5.0. I really don't like flying the smaller kites (too twitchy) and
      wish
      > that I had used my 7.5 again with shorter lines. The last 4 days the wind
      > was light and perfectly steady. I spent most of the time out on my 15.5.
      > So, if you travel to St. Martin, bring a full quiver.
      >
      > I went kite surfing at two locations, Orient Beach and Galion Beach. They
      > are both located on the windward side. Orient Beach is better suited to
      > beginners because you can go a long ways downwind. However, it has more
      > people on the beach and in the water, so it is best to launch early in the
      > morning or late in the day before the crowds show up. The water is fairly
      > choppy with 2 - 3 foot swell (nice for jumping). Galion Bay is a better
      > location for kite surfers that can stay upwind. It is far less crowded on
      > the beach and the water is more flat, but if you can't stay upwind your
      trip
      > to shore is mighty quick.
      >
      > The water is warm and the beaches consist of pure white sand. Both
      beaches
      > are clothing optional and the French have few inhibitions.
      >
      > Kenny
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Dave Raue [mailto:theraves@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:28 PM
      > To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Random Thoughts
      >
      >
      > Hey Kenny,
      >
      > So how was the wind and the launch? I'm looking for someplace this winter
      > that meets my almost impossible conditions - use FF miles to fly, use
      > timeshare to stay cheap. I think St Martin may qualify. Any tips on
      > beaches? And how was the kitesurfing actually - nice or filled with
      > suicidal kooks? Flat of surf or what? any info much appreciated! thx,
      >
      > -D
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      > To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:15 AM
      > Subject: [ksurfschool] Random Thoughts
      >
      >
      > > This past week I spent a week in St. Martin Kitesurfing. Almost
      everyone
      > I
      > > saw out on the water was a beginner. I wish to point out a couple
      things
      > to
      > > beginning kitesurfers.
      > >
      > > 1. I noticed that almost every kite surfer was going downwind fast.
      Part
      > > of the problem is that they were underpowered for the conditions. I saw
      > one
      > > guy that would go downwind a few hundred meters and then walk back up
      the
      > > beach with the kite overhead. There are two problems with this
      scenario.
      > > First, you don't have enough power to really go upwind if you can walk
      up
      > > the beach with the kite overhead. Second, it is downright dangerous to
      be
      > > walking backwards with a kite overhead with people on the beach.
      > >
      > > 2. I read a post from a guy that would like to travel with only 1 kite.
      > > That is okay if you do not plan on going out everyday. I flew my whole
      > > travel quiver while I was in St. Martin (5.0 AR-3.5 converted to 4
      lines,
      > > 7.5 AR-5, 9.5 AR-5, and 15.5 AR-5). The locals thought I was crazy to
      use
      > > my 15.5 in 15 mph winds. They were using 11.5's and 9.5's, but they
      > weren't
      > > staying upwind and they were not jumping. You need power to jump and
      stay
      > > upwind.
      > >
      > > 3. I was the only person using a bi-directional board (oversized
      > > wakeboard). The thin edge of my 169cm Wake-N-Style allows me to ride
      more
      > > powered up and stay upwind better. A further advantage is that you can
      > load
      > > up better for jumps. I didn't get in any super massive jumps on the
      trip,
      > > but I had some fun 15-20 foot high jumps that were satisfying.
      > >
      > > Kenny
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >






      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 2
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:19:32 -0000
      From: gigglewithme@...
      Subject: kitesurfing in Florida??

      I will be in the W. Palm- Ft. Lauderdale area this weekend.
      I recall hearing about a kitesurfing shop or school or both around
      that area. Does anybody know the name and how to get in touch with
      them??

      Also, is an 11.0 Wipika Free Air a good kite to bring for S. Florida
      this time of year? And does anybody have any good suggestions for a
      beginner re: where to sail?

      Thanks....

      Michael.



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 3
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:24:42 -0700
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      Subject: RE: Overpowered or not?

      I live inland, so I often experience extremely gusty conditions. To kite
      surf where I live handling overpowered conditions is a necessity. It is
      rare that I don't experience at least a 10 mph flux in windspeed while I am
      out on the water during a 1-2 hour session. I personally prefer being a
      little overpowered rather than underpowered. You can't kite surf as long in
      really overpowered conditions, but you can go upwind fast and jumps can be
      incredible, especially if you catch a gust just right (elevator effect). I
      use an oversized wakeboard (Litewave Wake-N-Style) because it helps me
      handle the extra power in gusts. The Naish AR-5 is also excellent in gusty
      conditions. The only real advantage that I have where I live is almost
      perfectly smooth water.

      Of course, I prefer perfect steady winds and flat water for kite surfing,
      but it is rare to find those ideal conditions in conjunction.

      Kenny

      -----Original Message-----
      From: kiteboard@... [mailto:kiteboard@...]
      Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 8:18 PM
      To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Overpowered or not?


      Being truly overpowered is not good for anybody, except that it may tend to
      extend the limits of your wind range. I recently posted the following on
      the
      "other" e-group:

      I ride nearly exactly the same, except that when "taking a break" I just
      point really high with the kite really low so I still get upwind pretty fast

      without edging or straining. However, I also like days when I'm not too
      overpowered to do some REALLY fast, nearly out of control, off-the-wind
      speed
      runs that end in wipeouts that are either spectacular, or skipping/planing
      on
      my shins. In those winds, I actually get my highest jumps too, when I time
      the kite swing to lift me up from the apex of my high speed launch off a
      nice
      ramp. You can't get the same speed into the ramp if you're too overpowered.

      Mel

      In a message dated 00-12-07 22:13:07 EST, david@... writes:

      << I ride quite differently, and almost always ride in the trim loop. I
      rarely
      use the normal harness line, unless I am almost underpowered.

      When I am super powered up I still edge hard and go slow upwind - but the
      rest of the time I try to keep my speed up by using the trim strap to
      control power.

      Sometimes when I am having a break between jumps I will ride in the trim
      loop and fly the kite quite high, while I ride the board quite flat
      underneath and still get upwind. I find this one of the best ways to take a
      breather - although it's harder to get upwind, and you need good fins for
      this.

      I agree that the days where you are forced to go slow, and then gingerly
      move the kite up but boost big air are the best.

      So much power to play with, but you can control it very precisely if the
      water is smooth, and you have a trim loop. >>





      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 4
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:09:50 EST
      From: kiteboard@...
      Subject: Re: Overpowered or not?

      In a message dated 00-12-11 11:23:43 EST, kenny@... writes:

      << I personally prefer being a
      little overpowered rather than underpowered. You can't kite surf as long in
      really overpowered conditions, but you can go upwind fast and jumps can be
      incredible, >>

      We must have different definitions of "overpowered". I only consider myself
      truly overpowered when I can no longer handle the power of the kite. This
      means I need to go really slow upwind, or a little faster WAY off the wind
      (nearly running with the wind), in order to reduce the apparent wind on the
      kite. The only way I can even come close to a beam reach under those
      conditions is to fly the kite REALLY high, so there's little forward pull (to
      reduce board speed & apparent wind). This isn't much fun, but it's good
      practice, & I can do it for a long time. In fact, I get tired faster when
      I'm not overpowered, since then I working at jumping, cranking jibes, & going
      really fast.

      Mel


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 5
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:12:50 -0500
      From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
      Subject: Re: Overpowered or not?

      kiteboard@... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 00-12-11 11:23:43 EST, kenny@... writes:
      >
      > << I personally prefer being a
      > little overpowered rather than underpowered. You can't kite surf as long in
      > really overpowered conditions, but you can go upwind fast and jumps can be
      > incredible, >>
      >
      > We must have different definitions of "overpowered". I only consider myself

      This brings up a very good question for beginners: How do one knows
      when there is enough power to effectively learn kitesurfing (go upwind,
      small jump, etc) ?

      Hung.


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 6
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:05:49 -0700
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      Subject: RE: Overpowered or not?

      Mel & Hung,

      You bring up some good points. I think it is pretty easy to define
      under-powered, but the line gets blurred between powered and overpowered.

      Under-powered - not enough power to stay equal to the shore while kite
      surfing. One indication is if you are sitting in the water with the kite
      overhead and it generates very little upward pull and responds slowly to
      inputs. If your feet are touching the bottom, you can easily walk
      backwards. You may be able to get up and kite surf while underpowered, but
      you will have to work the kite up and down almost continually. Furthermore,
      you will progressively move downwind because you don't have the power to
      work back upwind.

      Overpowered - Using a 2 line inflatable it easy to quickly become
      overpowered. The best bet is to do as Mel described, point the kite high
      and edge slowly upwind.

      Using a 4 line inflatable allows a person to handle a lot more power. I
      consider being overpowered when the kite is so powered up that I don't dare
      get out of the trim loop (This amount of power cannot be controlled on a 2
      line inflatable). I find that when this occurs I can control the
      overpowering effect two ways. 1. As Mel described, point the kite high.
      2. Sheet out completely on the AR-5 and move the kite close to the water
      and forward as possible. In either case, I use my wakeboard to crank upwind
      to battle the overpowering effect. I find that by following the second
      method, I can go upwind in a hurry. Jumping can be incredible, because all
      you have to do is sheet-in while you are winding up for a jump and then you
      are literally ripped off of the surface of the water. My biggest jumps have
      occurred while I was very powered up and in the trim loop.

      Kenny






      -----Original Message-----
      From: Hung Vu [mailto:hungvu@...]
      Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 12:13 PM
      To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Overpowered or not?


      kiteboard@... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 00-12-11 11:23:43 EST, kenny@... writes:
      >
      > << I personally prefer being a
      > little overpowered rather than underpowered. You can't kite surf as long
      in
      > really overpowered conditions, but you can go upwind fast and jumps can
      be
      > incredible, >>
      >
      > We must have different definitions of "overpowered". I only consider
      myself

      This brings up a very good question for beginners: How do one knows
      when there is enough power to effectively learn kitesurfing (go upwind,
      small jump, etc) ?

      Hung.





      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 7
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:41:46 -0000
      From: ebeard@...
      Subject: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power

      Hi,

      Apologies if these questions have been asked a hundred times before!

      I am flying a Blade 4.9 on a backstrap at the moment, and have
      previously tried putting it on a bar with the brake lines going to
      the centre, and the power lines to the outsides of the bar. However,
      I found that turning it like this was very slow and unresponsive.
      Has anyone tried setting it up with the power lines going to the
      centre of the bar and the brake lines to the outsides?, and if so
      does it work well for kitesufing?

      Currently I am using a Bic board which seems to work fine (can't jump
      yet etc). Is there a big advantage in swapping over to a 5 fin board
      like a Stonker or similar - and if so what should I look for in a
      board (materials, size, fins etc.)?

      I find that to get the Blade 4.9 working well for my size I need
      quite strong winds (I weigh 95kgs approx) although I can plane in
      lighter winds though end up massively down wind. I am thinking of
      getting an inflatable Naish / Wipika or something similar. As I
      understand it Blades are much more efficient than the inflatables,
      so, to get an inflatable a couple of 'power sizes' up to my Blade
      what size should I be aiming for, and has anyone got recommendations
      on type of kite?

      Finally, with regards to the board and inflatable kite anyone selling
      anything suitable secondhand in Sydney, Aus.?! Otherwise what prices
      (Aus$, US$ or GBP) should I be thinking of?

      Look forward to hearing

      Many thanks

      Ed



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 8
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:46:33 -0500
      From: "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@...>
      Subject: Re: kitesurfing in Florida??

      http://www.kitesurfusa.com these guys are in Ft Lauderdale.

      I would consider driving another hour south and enjoy the Florida Keys, with
      it's green SHALLOW water.

      Dwight

      > I will be in the W. Palm- Ft. Lauderdale area this weekend.
      > I recall hearing about a kitesurfing shop or school or both around
      > that area. Does anybody know the name and how to get in touch with
      > them??
      >
      > Also, is an 11.0 Wipika Free Air a good kite to bring for S. Florida
      > this time of year? And does anybody have any good suggestions for a
      > beginner re: where to sail?
      >
      > Thanks....
      >
      > Michael.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 9
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:54:58 -0700
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      Subject: RE: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable powe r

      Ed,

      I can't help you with your questions on the Blade. I suggest posting a
      message on ksurf concerning using a bar with the blade and for used
      equipment in Australia.

      As far as boards are concerned, I suggest getting a bi-directional board. A
      5'6" Twin Tip or a 5'8" Litewave Wake-N-Style are both great boards. You
      will be able to handle more power and have so much more fun on a good
      bi-directional board compared to a directional.

      As far as kites are concerned. A 9.5 Naish AR-5 is roughly equivalent to a
      4.9 Blade. If you want more power, I recommend going to the 15.5 Naish
      AR-5. It is a big kite, but it has a ton of range. I have a 15.5, my next
      smallest kite is the 9.5. I had a Wipika 11.0, but never used it because of
      the wide range of the 15.5.

      Kenny

      -----Original Message-----
      From: ebeard@... [mailto:ebeard@...]
      Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 3:42 PM
      To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
      Subject: [ksurfschool] Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power


      Hi,

      Apologies if these questions have been asked a hundred times before!

      I am flying a Blade 4.9 on a backstrap at the moment, and have
      previously tried putting it on a bar with the brake lines going to
      the centre, and the power lines to the outsides of the bar. However,
      I found that turning it like this was very slow and unresponsive.
      Has anyone tried setting it up with the power lines going to the
      centre of the bar and the brake lines to the outsides?, and if so
      does it work well for kitesufing?

      Currently I am using a Bic board which seems to work fine (can't jump
      yet etc). Is there a big advantage in swapping over to a 5 fin board
      like a Stonker or similar - and if so what should I look for in a
      board (materials, size, fins etc.)?

      I find that to get the Blade 4.9 working well for my size I need
      quite strong winds (I weigh 95kgs approx) although I can plane in
      lighter winds though end up massively down wind. I am thinking of
      getting an inflatable Naish / Wipika or something similar. As I
      understand it Blades are much more efficient than the inflatables,
      so, to get an inflatable a couple of 'power sizes' up to my Blade
      what size should I be aiming for, and has anyone got recommendations
      on type of kite?

      Finally, with regards to the board and inflatable kite anyone selling
      anything suitable secondhand in Sydney, Aus.?! Otherwise what prices
      (Aus$, US$ or GBP) should I be thinking of?

      Look forward to hearing

      Many thanks

      Ed






      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 10
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:49:19 EST
      From: kiteboard@...
      Subject: Re: Overpowered or not?

      In a message dated 12/11/00 11:21:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
      hungvu@... writes:

      << How do one knows
      when there is enough power to effectively learn kitesurfing (go upwind,
      small jump, etc) ? >>

      With the kite flying low, it should be VERY hard to walk backwards. If you
      CAREFULLY, with PLENTY of open, soft sand or water downwind, fly the kite
      overhead, it should be nearly impossible to walk upwind.

      AND: kenny@... writes:

      << Under-powered - not enough power to stay equal to the shore while kite
      surfing. >>

      I think what Hung wants is how beginners can tell if they SHOULD be able to
      stay to windward. I think that requires a land-based observation.

      << If your feet are touching the bottom, you can easily walk
      backwards. >>

      If you can walk backwards even with difficulty ON LAND you'll likely be
      barely powered up on the water. I just realized there are other criteria,
      primarily board size (bigger means less power required to be powered up).

      << I consider being overpowered when the kite is so powered up that I don't
      dare
      get out of the trim loop >>

      If you aren't in the trim loop that means you can't sheet out in the gusts,
      so you have to lower the power setting (strap) so you can handle the gusts,
      so it's like being partly sheeted out all the time. I use the trim loop 100%
      of the time, so I can be powered up more (strap set for the average wind) &
      only sheet out in the gusts.

      << As Mel described, point the kite high. >>

      I only fly the kite high in order to REACH when I'm so overpowered that I
      can't handle the speed. What I usually do is just fly low & avoid reaching
      (pinch upwind or run with the wind only).

      << Sheet out completely on the AR-5 and move the kite close to the water
      and forward as possible. >>

      In my comment above I am sheeted all the way out already (back lines drooping
      due to lack of tension). If I still can't handle the speed of reaching I
      pinch, then run (in order to come back to the same spot).

      << Jumping can be incredible, because all
      you have to do is sheet-in while you are winding up for a jump and then you
      are literally ripped off of the surface of the water. My biggest jumps have
      occurred while I was very powered up and in the trim loop. >>

      Yes, VERY powered up, but not really OVERpowered by my definition (which now
      I think may be best described as: Unable to reach across the wind, even while
      flying the kite low & fully sheeted out).

      Mel


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 11
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:10:37 -0700
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      Subject: RE: Overpowered or not?

      Mel,

      I understand your definition better now. However, based on your definition,
      I think that I have been overpowered only once, on my 15.5 in 25 - 30 mph
      winds. I did have my best jump that day, but I did have to go in early. I
      came out of my trim loop after a jump and I couldn't get back in no matter
      how hard I tried (I was exhausted after an hour on the water). I had to
      down the kite and walk downwind to my car.

      Kenny

      -----Original Message-----
      From: kiteboard@... [mailto:kiteboard@...]
      Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 4:49 PM
      To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Overpowered or not?


      In a message dated 12/11/00 11:21:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
      hungvu@... writes:

      << How do one knows
      when there is enough power to effectively learn kitesurfing (go upwind,
      small jump, etc) ? >>

      With the kite flying low, it should be VERY hard to walk backwards. If you
      CAREFULLY, with PLENTY of open, soft sand or water downwind, fly the kite
      overhead, it should be nearly impossible to walk upwind.

      AND: kenny@... writes:

      << Under-powered - not enough power to stay equal to the shore while kite
      surfing. >>

      I think what Hung wants is how beginners can tell if they SHOULD be able to
      stay to windward. I think that requires a land-based observation.

      << If your feet are touching the bottom, you can easily walk
      backwards. >>

      If you can walk backwards even with difficulty ON LAND you'll likely be
      barely powered up on the water. I just realized there are other criteria,
      primarily board size (bigger means less power required to be powered up).

      << I consider being overpowered when the kite is so powered up that I don't

      dare
      get out of the trim loop >>

      If you aren't in the trim loop that means you can't sheet out in the gusts,
      so you have to lower the power setting (strap) so you can handle the gusts,
      so it's like being partly sheeted out all the time. I use the trim loop
      100%
      of the time, so I can be powered up more (strap set for the average wind) &
      only sheet out in the gusts.

      << As Mel described, point the kite high. >>

      I only fly the kite high in order to REACH when I'm so overpowered that I
      can't handle the speed. What I usually do is just fly low & avoid reaching
      (pinch upwind or run with the wind only).

      << Sheet out completely on the AR-5 and move the kite close to the water
      and forward as possible. >>

      In my comment above I am sheeted all the way out already (back lines
      drooping
      due to lack of tension). If I still can't handle the speed of reaching I
      pinch, then run (in order to come back to the same spot).

      << Jumping can be incredible, because all
      you have to do is sheet-in while you are winding up for a jump and then you
      are literally ripped off of the surface of the water. My biggest jumps have
      occurred while I was very powered up and in the trim loop. >>

      Yes, VERY powered up, but not really OVERpowered by my definition (which now

      I think may be best described as: Unable to reach across the wind, even
      while
      flying the kite low & fully sheeted out).

      Mel





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      Message: 12
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:22:05 EST
      From: kiteboard@...
      Subject: Re: Overpowered or not?

      In a message dated 12/11/00 4:10:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      kenny@... writes:

      << I
      came out of my trim loop after a jump and I couldn't get back in no matter
      how hard I tried >>

      Could you hook into your regular harness line? If so, you should have been
      able to adjust the strap with one hand. Of course that would only help if
      you've replaced the pathetically limited range stock strap with something
      more realistic. My strap is long enough to make the rear lines slack even
      when I'm harnessed in (reg. line) when fully overpowered. I think that's the
      only way to be really safe & it also allows the greatest high-end wind range.

      Mel


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      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 13
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:34:21 -0700
      From: "Farnsworth, Kenny" <kenny@...>
      Subject: RE: Overpowered or not?

      That day I was using an AirRush bar without an adjustment strap. I have
      since added one. I agree that a really long adjustment strap is necessary
      with the 15.5.

      Kenny

      -----Original Message-----
      From: kiteboard@... [mailto:kiteboard@...]
      Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 5:22 PM
      To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Overpowered or not?


      In a message dated 12/11/00 4:10:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      kenny@... writes:

      << I
      came out of my trim loop after a jump and I couldn't get back in no matter
      how hard I tried >>

      Could you hook into your regular harness line? If so, you should have been
      able to adjust the strap with one hand. Of course that would only help if
      you've replaced the pathetically limited range stock strap with something
      more realistic. My strap is long enough to make the rear lines slack even
      when I'm harnessed in (reg. line) when fully overpowered. I think that's
      the
      only way to be really safe & it also allows the greatest high-end wind
      range.

      Mel





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      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 14
      Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:37:58 -0000
      From: "Colin Gowland" <colin-gowland@...>
      Subject: Re: Overpowered or not?

      Hi Mel,

      Where did you get your strap and pieces. I've seen a few mods that
      look pretty pathetic in terms of reliability.

      Kind Regards,
      Colin


      My strap is long enough to make the rear lines slack even
      > when I'm harnessed in (reg. line) when fully overpowered. I think
      that's the
      > only way to be really safe & it also allows the greatest high-end
      wind range.
      >
      > Mel



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      Message: 15
      Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:40:17 -0000
      From: "Colin Gowland" <colin-gowland@...>
      Subject: Re: Overpowered or not?

      Kenny,

      Any idea approx. how long? Do you have some kind of system set up to
      prevent that huge tail (when completely depowered) from
      wrapping/tangling/whipping in face etc.?

      Colin

      I agree that a really long adjustment strap is necessary
      > with the 15.5.
      >
      > Kenny




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 16
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:06:36 EST
      From: kiteboard@...
      Subject: Re: Re: Overpowered or not?

      In a message dated 12/11/00 4:41:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      colin-gowland@... writes:

      << Do you have some kind of system set up to
      prevent that huge tail (when completely depowered) from
      wrapping/tangling/whipping in face etc.? >>

      I attach what would be the "free" end to a secondary "lengthening" buckle I
      add to the Superloc (no sewing required). That makes the free end half as
      long. See
      http://www.egroups.com/files/kitesurf/Mel%27s+Mega+Mods/SuperLoc+Web+Routing

      Mel


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 17
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:33:29 -0500
      From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: Overpowered or not?

      FWIW, my strap has stainless steel strap sliders, loops, etc from West
      marine with tubular climbing-style tubular webbing. hardware seems up to
      rock climbing bomberness, I'm sure my bar would break long before the strap.
      On the 15.5 it has about 2 feet of play, but I've never used it all. Seems
      to be enough range to go from rear lines totally slack to front lines
      virtually slack (in ultralite wind).

      As for overpowered, I never use the trim loop, too much hassle for me. I'd
      prefer to ride out the gusts by railing or slogging upwind. I usually set
      the trim on the beach - if I'm standing very lightly on tippy-toes with kite
      straight overhead it's about right. I may be able to move backwards slowly,
      but certainly not over knee-deep in the water. If it's blowing that hard
      I'm gonna go upwind wherever I want. Less and, well, you never know...

      -D
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Colin Gowland" <colin-gowland@...>
      To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:37 PM
      Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Overpowered or not?


      > Hi Mel,
      >
      > Where did you get your strap and pieces. I've seen a few mods that
      > look pretty pathetic in terms of reliability.
      >
      > Kind Regards,
      > Colin
      >
      >
      > My strap is long enough to make the rear lines slack even
      > > when I'm harnessed in (reg. line) when fully overpowered. I think
      > that's the
      > > only way to be really safe & it also allows the greatest high-end
      > wind range.
      > >
      > > Mel
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 18
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:35:49 -0500
      From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
      Subject: Re: kitesurfing in Florida??

      Hey Dwight,
      The Keys are the next destination in my winter kitesurf expedition research
      list. Any place in particular? Anyplace cheap to stay? Thanks,

      -D
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@...>
      To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 5:46 PM
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] kitesurfing in Florida??


      > http://www.kitesurfusa.com these guys are in Ft Lauderdale.
      >
      > I would consider driving another hour south and enjoy the Florida Keys,
      with
      > it's green SHALLOW water.
      >
      > Dwight
      >
      > > I will be in the W. Palm- Ft. Lauderdale area this weekend.
      > > I recall hearing about a kitesurfing shop or school or both around
      > > that area. Does anybody know the name and how to get in touch with
      > > them??
      > >
      > > Also, is an 11.0 Wipika Free Air a good kite to bring for S. Florida
      > > this time of year? And does anybody have any good suggestions for a
      > > beginner re: where to sail?
      > >
      > > Thanks....
      > >
      > > Michael.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 19
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:23:42 -0500
      From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
      Subject: Re: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power

      ebeard@... wrote:
      > I am flying a Blade 4.9 on a backstrap at the moment, and have
      > previously tried putting it on a bar with the brake lines going to
      > the centre, and the power lines to the outsides of the bar. However,
      > I found that turning it like this was very slow and unresponsive.
      > Has anyone tried setting it up with the power lines going to the
      > centre of the bar and the brake lines to the outsides?, and if so
      > does it work well for kitesufing?

      I have seen a number of people doing that and it should work well.

      The other option is to use "power steering" by somehow connecting the
      front lines to the brake lines. Some knowledge of the bridal is needed
      for this mod.

      > Currently I am using a Bic board which seems to work fine (can't jump
      > yet etc). Is there a big advantage in swapping over to a 5 fin board
      > like a Stonker or similar - and if so what should I look for in a
      > board (materials, size, fins etc.)?

      If you mean a smaller board then the advantage is more control while
      jumping. You should be able to go upwind on almost ANY modern board
      with the right technique.

      > I find that to get the Blade 4.9 working well for my size I need
      > quite strong winds (I weigh 95kgs approx) although I can plane in
      > lighter winds though end up massively down wind. I am thinking of
      > getting an inflatable Naish / Wipika or something similar. As I
      > understand it Blades are much more efficient than the inflatables,
      > so, to get an inflatable a couple of 'power sizes' up to my Blade
      > what size should I be aiming for, and has anyone got recommendations
      > on type of kite?

      The best comparison is to use the projected surface. I "think" the
      projected surface of the 11.5 is 6.4, 13.5 is 7.4 and 15.5 is 8.4. Your
      4.9 Blade projected surface is probably closed to 4.9. I would
      recommend an 13.5 or 15.5 as a step up from Blade 4.9.

      Hung.


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 20
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:20:31 -0500
      From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
      Subject: Re: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power

      I can confirm Hung's suggestion. I had a Mossie quiver. The Mossie 5.5 is
      roughly the same as your 4.9 Blade. I eventually got an AR5 15.5 and found
      that it was about as powerful as the Mossie 7.5, though the AR5's range is
      far greater. Over 16 kts or so and the 7.5 becomes troublesome and is nuts
      by 18 kts, while I've had the 15.5 in far more wind. OTOH, the Mossie 9+ is
      FAR more powerful than the 15.5. All this is on 5'8" Wake-n-style board; I
      weigh 200#. Make of this what you will, hope it helps.

      -D
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Hung Vu" <hungvu@...>
      To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:23 PM
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power


      > ebeard@... wrote:
      > > I am flying a Blade 4.9 on a backstrap at the moment, and have
      > > previously tried putting it on a bar with the brake lines going to
      > > the centre, and the power lines to the outsides of the bar. However,
      > > I found that turning it like this was very slow and unresponsive.
      > > Has anyone tried setting it up with the power lines going to the
      > > centre of the bar and the brake lines to the outsides?, and if so
      > > does it work well for kitesufing?
      >
      > I have seen a number of people doing that and it should work well.
      >
      > The other option is to use "power steering" by somehow connecting the
      > front lines to the brake lines. Some knowledge of the bridal is needed
      > for this mod.
      >
      > > Currently I am using a Bic board which seems to work fine (can't jump
      > > yet etc). Is there a big advantage in swapping over to a 5 fin board
      > > like a Stonker or similar - and if so what should I look for in a
      > > board (materials, size, fins etc.)?
      >
      > If you mean a smaller board then the advantage is more control while
      > jumping. You should be able to go upwind on almost ANY modern board
      > with the right technique.
      >
      > > I find that to get the Blade 4.9 working well for my size I need
      > > quite strong winds (I weigh 95kgs approx) although I can plane in
      > > lighter winds though end up massively down wind. I am thinking of
      > > getting an inflatable Naish / Wipika or something similar. As I
      > > understand it Blades are much more efficient than the inflatables,
      > > so, to get an inflatable a couple of 'power sizes' up to my Blade
      > > what size should I be aiming for, and has anyone got recommendations
      > > on type of kite?
      >
      > The best comparison is to use the projected surface. I "think" the
      > projected surface of the 11.5 is 6.4, 13.5 is 7.4 and 15.5 is 8.4. Your
      > 4.9 Blade projected surface is probably closed to 4.9. I would
      > recommend an 13.5 or 15.5 as a step up from Blade 4.9.
      >
      > Hung.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 21
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:38:44 EST
      From: kiteboard@...
      Subject: Re: Re: Overpowered or not?

      In a message dated 12/11/00 5:26:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      theraves@... writes:

      << As for overpowered, I never use the trim loop, too much hassle for me. >>

      Me too. That's why I just attached it directly to my harness! (so I can
      always be using it, without the hassle). It allows me to be more powered up
      all the time, since I can always sheet out in the gusts.

      << I'd
      prefer to ride out the gusts by railing or slogging upwind. I usually set
      the trim on the beach - if I'm standing very lightly on tippy-toes with kite
      straight overhead >>

      WOAH!! Obviously those "gusts" you speak of aren't much. No wonder you
      don't need the trim line. On the beach here you can't fly the kite overhead
      without your body also flying through the air.

      Mel


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 22
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:12:04 -0500
      From: "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@...>
      Subject: Re: kitesurfing in Florida??



      > Hey Dwight,
      > The Keys are the next destination in my winter kitesurf expedition
      research
      > list. Any place in particular? Anyplace cheap to stay? Thanks,
      >
      > -D

      I always went in November when the rates were off season. Around mid
      December they go sky high. We stayed at a reasonable place on Key Colony
      Beach. It was a little mom and pop hotel with a sandy beach. The water was
      deep right off the beach.

      The campgrounds are the cheap place to stay. There are no bugs or mosquito
      in the winter. I here around Christmas there is a wafting list to get in the
      state campgrounds. Bahia Honda is the sweetest.

      Dwight





      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 23
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:14:05 -0500
      From: "Dwight & Jacky" <fishersfort@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: Overpowered or not?

      I simple trick is to tie two Naish straps end to end. They don't flop around
      and you can reach the top one after the bottom one is pulled in.

      Dwight

      > Kenny,
      >
      > Any idea approx. how long? Do you have some kind of system set up to
      > prevent that huge tail (when completely depowered) from
      > wrapping/tangling/whipping in face etc.?
      >
      > Colin




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 24
      Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 03:15:43 -0000
      From: ebeard@...
      Subject: Re: Blades on 4 lines, stonkers and inflatable power

      many thanks for this - in the comparisons of projected surface area
      below are they for the Wipika Classic, or the free-air?

      ed

      --- In ksurfschool@egroups.com, Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
      > ebeard@t... wrote:
      > > I am flying a Blade 4.9 on a backstrap at the moment, and have
      > > previously tried putting it on a bar with the brake lines going to
      > > the centre, and the power lines to the outsides of the bar.
      However,
      > > I found that turning it like this was very slow and unresponsive.
      > > Has anyone tried setting it up with the power lines going to the
      > > centre of the bar and the brake lines to the outsides?, and if so
      > > does it work well for kitesufing?
      >
      > I have seen a number of people doing that and it should work well.
      >
      > The other option is to use "power steering" by somehow connecting
      the
      > front lines to the brake lines. Some knowledge of the bridal is
      needed
      > for this mod.
      >
      > > Currently I am using a Bic board which seems to work fine (can't
      jump
      > > yet etc). Is there a big advantage in swapping over to a 5 fin
      board
      > > like a Stonker or similar - and if so what should I look for in a
      > > board (materials, size, fins etc.)?
      >
      > If you mean a smaller board then the advantage is more control while
      > jumping. You should be able to go upwind on almost ANY modern board
      > with the right technique.
      >
      > > I find that to get the Blade 4.9 working well for my size I need
      > > quite strong winds (I weigh 95kgs approx) although I can plane in
      > > lighter winds though end up massively down wind. I am thinking of
      > > getting an inflatable Naish / Wipika or something similar. As I
      > > understand it Blades are much more efficient than the inflatables,
      > > so, to get an inflatable a couple of 'power sizes' up to my Blade
      > > what size should I be aiming for, and has anyone got
      recommendations
      > > on type of kite?
      >
      > The best comparison is to use the projected surface. I "think" the
      > projected surface of the 11.5 is 6.4, 13.5 is 7.4 and 15.5 is 8.4.
      Your
      > 4.9 Blade projected surface is probably closed to 4.9. I would
      > recommend an 13.5 or 15.5 as a step up from Blade 4.9.
      >
      > Hung.



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      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 25
      Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 04:06:01 -0000
      From: gigglewithme@...
      Subject: Re: kitesurfing in Florida??

      Thanks for the tip. I was hoping to get to the keys if I have the
      time. Any locations in particular that are good for beginners??
      (shallow water, sideshore winds, etc)



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      ________________________________________________________________________
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