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Re: [ksurfschool] Salutations!

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  • martyn gilson
    Derek, you have had a lot of advice from experienced kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up quickly you still need to remember that there are a few
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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      Derek,
      you have had a lot of advice from experienced
      kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up
      quickly you still need to remember that there are a
      few things that are completely different to
      windsurfing.

      Firstly, getting the board onto your feet, whilst
      holding on to a kite is not easy and different to any
      other watersport.

      Secondly, the power from a kite is not as easily
      controlled as a sail.

      Thirdly, safety factors are much different.

      My advice, especially if you are going to get only one
      kite would be to get a big one. I wish I got a 11M
      wipika to start and 3 line lengths. The shorter the
      lines the less time the kite spends in the wind
      window, therefore easier to control in high winds. If
      you take only a 7 or 9 M inflatable, depending on your
      wind strength, you won't be kiting as often as you
      like. I bought a 7M Naish thinking that it was plenty
      big enough, it's not. The better you become the more
      kite you can hang on to, you'll get to this stage very
      quickly so buying a small kite potentially could be a
      waste. This is not a lightwind sport.

      The AR5 are good (and expensive) kites but with 4
      lines and more challenging relaunch, it would possibly
      be a hindrance rather than a benefit for a beginner to
      get one as their first and only kite.

      The above advice was given to me by this group and it
      is sound advice. However, this is more about getting
      out there and having a go. If you find a dirt cheap
      8.5 wipika classic then grab it, use it for a season,
      sell it and get a big AR5.


      --- derekbown@... wrote: > Hi Everyone,
      > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure
      > that I'm going to
      > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
      >
      > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly
      > good surfer, and
      > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The
      > reasons I want to get
      > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a
      > heck of a lot of
      > fun, and second; because it seems much more portable
      > than either of
      > my other wave sports.
      >
      > So if I was to buy a kite for traveling (mostly
      > disregarding my
      > complete beginner status, which will hopefully be a
      > short phase),
      > what do you think would be the most versatile?
      >
      > I want to travel with only one kite. I'm thinking
      > in the 7 to 9
      > meter range (?).
      >
      > I'm not sure but I don't think I'm interested in
      > 2-line kites. It
      > sounds like the four-line inflatable Naish's have
      > the most wind range
      > and comfort factor, but the new 3-line kites sound
      > very versatile
      > too.
      >
      > Likewise for the board, I think I want a wakeboard
      > (for it's short
      > length), but does anyone suggest anything else?
      >
      > Are there any two-section boards out there, similar
      > to the two-
      > section surfboards that are available for traveling?
      >
      >
      > What is the minimum length that feels comfortable
      > for a 175 lb person
      > in a wide range of wind speeds?
      >
      > I'll probably be sailing in waves, so it would be
      > nice to have a surf-
      > style board but those are all probably too long and
      > fragile.
      >
      > Anyway, I may be getting ahead of myself here but
      > I'm guessing my
      > windsurfing and kiting experience will get me into
      > regular gear (vs
      > learning gear) without too many problems. I paid
      > enough dues in
      > windsurfing to know that I need to start on a long,
      > wide, unpopulated
      > beach, with side-onshore wind (and preferably flat,
      > shallow water
      > with a sandy bottom). But let me know if I'm being
      > overconfident.
      >
      > Thanks for your help, I'm so glad this group is
      > here.
      >
      > -Derek
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
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    • Chris Glazier
      Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable and it is easier to
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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        Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the
        Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable
        and it is easier to relaunch and less expensive than the Naish or
        Wipika. My New Wave 7.3 has about the same power as a Naish 11.0
        (because of projected area).

        And a tip: First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
        doesn't get any easier in the water.

        Chris G



        --- In ksurfschool@egroups.com, derekbown@y... wrote:
        > Hi Everyone,
        > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure that I'm going to
        > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
        >
        > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
        > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to
        get
        > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot
      • kiteboard@aol.com
        In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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          In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@... writes:

          << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
          doesn't get any easier in the water. >>

          I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the water (without
          the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is when you get
          on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read something
          about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90% kite.

          If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a lesson, since
          it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to buy a
          trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).

          Mel
        • Chris Glazier
          Good points Mel Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on land: -fly the kite without looking at it -increase kite power by moving the
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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            Good points Mel

            Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
            land:

            -fly the kite without looking at it
            -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
            -launch the kite by yourself
            -land the kite by yourself ..softly
            -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
            -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
            -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
            -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

            Chris G



            > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
            > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
            >
            > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
            water (without
            > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
            when you get
            > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
            something
            > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
            kite.
            >
            > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
            lesson, since
            > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
            buy a
            > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
            >
            > Mel
          • kiteboard@aol.com
            In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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              In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@... writes:

              << Good points Mel

              Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
              land:

              -fly the kite without looking at it... >>

              I'd add: ...with one hand, while bobbing in the water (not touching bottom)

              << -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern... >>

              ...and in light enough winds to make horizontal passes close to the surface.
              Simulate waterstarting by hovering high while lying down, then diving the
              kite to lift you to your feet. Practice in light enough winds that you can
              dive the kite STRAIGHT down, & pull out before it touches the surface.

              << -launch the kite by yourself... >>

              ...from land, AND from leading edge down in the water (a beach where it blows
              light offshore is ideal).

              << -land the kite by yourself ..softly >>

              ..on land AND on the water (leading edge STRAIGHT down in front of the
              whitewater).

              << -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
              -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
              -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
              -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite >>

              Those are all what I recommend also. You can do the drag with bare feet on
              clean dry sand, and with shoes on grass (especially if it's a little wet).
              Keep in mind that most of this can be done in VERY light winds (no need to
              miss any windsurfing). The hovering should be practiced in strong winds also.

              Mel
            • Farnsworth, Kenny
              Chris, Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
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                Chris,

                Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite
                is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                I am powered up. Just launching can be a scary thing when you are using a
                big kite in powerful wind. It can be incredibly painful getting dragged
                along the shore behind an out of control kite.

                One of the things every new kite surfer needs to understand is that when you
                want to start jumping and staying upwind, you are going to have to fly
                really overpowered. I remember when I first went to Maui and watched Elliot
                Leboe and Lou Wainman get dragged and slammed after doing some big jumps. I
                was surprised by the abuse that they take day in and day out. Most of the
                kite videos don't show you how bad the pros get hammered on some jumps. It
                is not technique alone that allows them to sky so high, they ride incredibly
                overpowered. That is why good kite control is so essential before you start
                riding powered up. If you make a wrong move (easy to do in winds over 30
                knots), the consequences are often very painful.

                Kenny

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Chris Glazier [mailto:cglazier@...]
                Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:10 PM
                To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
                Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Salutations!


                Good points Mel

                Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                land:

                -fly the kite without looking at it
                -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
                -launch the kite by yourself
                -land the kite by yourself ..softly
                -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

                Chris G



                > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
                >
                > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
                water (without
                > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
                when you get
                > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
                something
                > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
                kite.
                >
                > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
                lesson, since
                > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
                buy a
                > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
                >
                > Mel
              • kiteboard@aol.com
                In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@rhodesbread.com writes:
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
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                  In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                  << Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                  kite
                  is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                  investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                  I am powered up. >>

                  I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                  than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                  feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                  moving to keep it up. Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                  should be done while powered up. To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                  impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead. You should NEVER fly the
                  kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                  of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                  length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind. You
                  should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                  Mel
                • Derek Bown
                  Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. I m taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 13, 2000
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                    Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. 

                    I'm taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier than a pinwheeling sail in 40 knots, and more likely to happen. 

                    I'll let y'all know how it goes.

                    Cheers,

                    Derek

                      kiteboard@... wrote:

                    In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                    <<  Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                    kite
                    is only lightly powered.  I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                    investment.  I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                    I am powered up. >>

                    I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                    than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                    feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                    moving to keep it up.  Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                    should be done while powered up.  To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                    impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead.  You should NEVER fly the
                    kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                    of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                    length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind.  You
                    should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                    Mel



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