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Re: [ksurfschool] Salutations!

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  • kiteboard@aol.com
    In a message dated 00-12-06 21:17:08 EST, brockus@empire.net writes:
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
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      In a message dated 00-12-06 21:17:08 EST, brockus@... writes:

      << the learning curve for kiteboarding
      is
      > VERY steep (especially compared to windsurfing).
      >
      > Mel

      Meaning you learn a lot in a short period of time, right? I thought it was
      the other way around - steep is hard, etc. >>

      Yes, meaning you learn fast. Picture a graph with time along the bottom (as
      usual), & skill level on the vertical axis. As time increases to the right,
      skill increases rapidly, making for a steep curve (compared to something like
      windsurfing).

      In under a year of kiteboarding I've now jumped as high as I ever did in 20
      years of windsurfing, & can also plane out of nearly every jibe (even in 10
      knots, which I can't do on a sailboard - at least not with the same gear I
      use in 25!). No wonder I quit windsurfing!

      Mel
    • martyn gilson
      Derek, you have had a lot of advice from experienced kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up quickly you still need to remember that there are a few
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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        Derek,
        you have had a lot of advice from experienced
        kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up
        quickly you still need to remember that there are a
        few things that are completely different to
        windsurfing.

        Firstly, getting the board onto your feet, whilst
        holding on to a kite is not easy and different to any
        other watersport.

        Secondly, the power from a kite is not as easily
        controlled as a sail.

        Thirdly, safety factors are much different.

        My advice, especially if you are going to get only one
        kite would be to get a big one. I wish I got a 11M
        wipika to start and 3 line lengths. The shorter the
        lines the less time the kite spends in the wind
        window, therefore easier to control in high winds. If
        you take only a 7 or 9 M inflatable, depending on your
        wind strength, you won't be kiting as often as you
        like. I bought a 7M Naish thinking that it was plenty
        big enough, it's not. The better you become the more
        kite you can hang on to, you'll get to this stage very
        quickly so buying a small kite potentially could be a
        waste. This is not a lightwind sport.

        The AR5 are good (and expensive) kites but with 4
        lines and more challenging relaunch, it would possibly
        be a hindrance rather than a benefit for a beginner to
        get one as their first and only kite.

        The above advice was given to me by this group and it
        is sound advice. However, this is more about getting
        out there and having a go. If you find a dirt cheap
        8.5 wipika classic then grab it, use it for a season,
        sell it and get a big AR5.


        --- derekbown@... wrote: > Hi Everyone,
        > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure
        > that I'm going to
        > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
        >
        > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly
        > good surfer, and
        > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The
        > reasons I want to get
        > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a
        > heck of a lot of
        > fun, and second; because it seems much more portable
        > than either of
        > my other wave sports.
        >
        > So if I was to buy a kite for traveling (mostly
        > disregarding my
        > complete beginner status, which will hopefully be a
        > short phase),
        > what do you think would be the most versatile?
        >
        > I want to travel with only one kite. I'm thinking
        > in the 7 to 9
        > meter range (?).
        >
        > I'm not sure but I don't think I'm interested in
        > 2-line kites. It
        > sounds like the four-line inflatable Naish's have
        > the most wind range
        > and comfort factor, but the new 3-line kites sound
        > very versatile
        > too.
        >
        > Likewise for the board, I think I want a wakeboard
        > (for it's short
        > length), but does anyone suggest anything else?
        >
        > Are there any two-section boards out there, similar
        > to the two-
        > section surfboards that are available for traveling?
        >
        >
        > What is the minimum length that feels comfortable
        > for a 175 lb person
        > in a wide range of wind speeds?
        >
        > I'll probably be sailing in waves, so it would be
        > nice to have a surf-
        > style board but those are all probably too long and
        > fragile.
        >
        > Anyway, I may be getting ahead of myself here but
        > I'm guessing my
        > windsurfing and kiting experience will get me into
        > regular gear (vs
        > learning gear) without too many problems. I paid
        > enough dues in
        > windsurfing to know that I need to start on a long,
        > wide, unpopulated
        > beach, with side-onshore wind (and preferably flat,
        > shallow water
        > with a sandy bottom). But let me know if I'm being
        > overconfident.
        >
        > Thanks for your help, I'm so glad this group is
        > here.
        >
        > -Derek
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
        >
        >
        >


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      • Chris Glazier
        Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable and it is easier to
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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          Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the
          Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable
          and it is easier to relaunch and less expensive than the Naish or
          Wipika. My New Wave 7.3 has about the same power as a Naish 11.0
          (because of projected area).

          And a tip: First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
          doesn't get any easier in the water.

          Chris G



          --- In ksurfschool@egroups.com, derekbown@y... wrote:
          > Hi Everyone,
          > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure that I'm going to
          > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
          >
          > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
          > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to
          get
          > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot
        • kiteboard@aol.com
          In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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            In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@... writes:

            << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
            doesn't get any easier in the water. >>

            I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the water (without
            the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is when you get
            on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read something
            about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90% kite.

            If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a lesson, since
            it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to buy a
            trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).

            Mel
          • Chris Glazier
            Good points Mel Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on land: -fly the kite without looking at it -increase kite power by moving the
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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              Good points Mel

              Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
              land:

              -fly the kite without looking at it
              -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
              -launch the kite by yourself
              -land the kite by yourself ..softly
              -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
              -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
              -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
              -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

              Chris G



              > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
              > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
              >
              > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
              water (without
              > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
              when you get
              > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
              something
              > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
              kite.
              >
              > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
              lesson, since
              > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
              buy a
              > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
              >
              > Mel
            • kiteboard@aol.com
              In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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                In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@... writes:

                << Good points Mel

                Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                land:

                -fly the kite without looking at it... >>

                I'd add: ...with one hand, while bobbing in the water (not touching bottom)

                << -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern... >>

                ...and in light enough winds to make horizontal passes close to the surface.
                Simulate waterstarting by hovering high while lying down, then diving the
                kite to lift you to your feet. Practice in light enough winds that you can
                dive the kite STRAIGHT down, & pull out before it touches the surface.

                << -launch the kite by yourself... >>

                ...from land, AND from leading edge down in the water (a beach where it blows
                light offshore is ideal).

                << -land the kite by yourself ..softly >>

                ..on land AND on the water (leading edge STRAIGHT down in front of the
                whitewater).

                << -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite >>

                Those are all what I recommend also. You can do the drag with bare feet on
                clean dry sand, and with shoes on grass (especially if it's a little wet).
                Keep in mind that most of this can be done in VERY light winds (no need to
                miss any windsurfing). The hovering should be practiced in strong winds also.

                Mel
              • Farnsworth, Kenny
                Chris, Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
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                  Chris,

                  Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite
                  is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                  investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                  I am powered up. Just launching can be a scary thing when you are using a
                  big kite in powerful wind. It can be incredibly painful getting dragged
                  along the shore behind an out of control kite.

                  One of the things every new kite surfer needs to understand is that when you
                  want to start jumping and staying upwind, you are going to have to fly
                  really overpowered. I remember when I first went to Maui and watched Elliot
                  Leboe and Lou Wainman get dragged and slammed after doing some big jumps. I
                  was surprised by the abuse that they take day in and day out. Most of the
                  kite videos don't show you how bad the pros get hammered on some jumps. It
                  is not technique alone that allows them to sky so high, they ride incredibly
                  overpowered. That is why good kite control is so essential before you start
                  riding powered up. If you make a wrong move (easy to do in winds over 30
                  knots), the consequences are often very painful.

                  Kenny

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Chris Glazier [mailto:cglazier@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:10 PM
                  To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
                  Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Salutations!


                  Good points Mel

                  Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                  land:

                  -fly the kite without looking at it
                  -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
                  -launch the kite by yourself
                  -land the kite by yourself ..softly
                  -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                  -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                  -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                  -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

                  Chris G



                  > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                  > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
                  >
                  > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
                  water (without
                  > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
                  when you get
                  > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
                  something
                  > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
                  kite.
                  >
                  > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
                  lesson, since
                  > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
                  buy a
                  > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
                  >
                  > Mel
                • kiteboard@aol.com
                  In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@rhodesbread.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
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                    In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                    << Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                    kite
                    is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                    investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                    I am powered up. >>

                    I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                    than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                    feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                    moving to keep it up. Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                    should be done while powered up. To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                    impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead. You should NEVER fly the
                    kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                    of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                    length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind. You
                    should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                    Mel
                  • Derek Bown
                    Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. I m taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 13, 2000
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                      Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. 

                      I'm taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier than a pinwheeling sail in 40 knots, and more likely to happen. 

                      I'll let y'all know how it goes.

                      Cheers,

                      Derek

                        kiteboard@... wrote:

                      In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                      <<  Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                      kite
                      is only lightly powered.  I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                      investment.  I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                      I am powered up. >>

                      I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                      than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                      feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                      moving to keep it up.  Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                      should be done while powered up.  To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                      impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead.  You should NEVER fly the
                      kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                      of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                      length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind.  You
                      should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                      Mel



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