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Re: [ksurfschool] Salutations!

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  • Mark Frasier
    ... should ... is ... Meaning you learn a lot in a short period of time, right? I thought it was the other way around - steep is hard, etc. I never did any
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
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      > If you have access to such an area, & are patient & VERY carefull, you
      should
      > be okay. Even at the worst of times, the learning curve for kiteboarding
      is
      > VERY steep (especially compared to windsurfing).
      >
      > Mel

      Meaning you learn a lot in a short period of time, right? I thought it was
      the other way around - steep is hard, etc.

      I never did any water sports before kitesurfing (except maybe 2-3 water ski
      runs when I was 12)

      After about a season and a half, I'm keeping up with the local windsurfers
      in winds up to 20 mph or so, and absolutely blowing by them in anything
      under 15. Getting some nice jumps with a few seconds of hangtime and going
      higher in 15 mph than most windsurfers ever will in any conditions. Landed a
      couple of 360's at the end of the summer, and I'm not even actively working
      aerial tricks yet.

      I think my learning speed would have been better if there were other
      kitesurfers around when I started (even just to watch), and if I hadn't let
      my kitebuggying safety sense and budget keep me from using a big enough
      kite. Once I got an 8.5 C Quad things really started to happen. (8.5 CQ is
      roughly equivalent to a 15.5 Naish as far as min. usable windspeed goes - we
      had a lot of light wind here this summer).

      It helped out that I had a lot of traction kite skill from skiing and
      buggying (except that thing about using too small a kite most of the time).

      Mark Frasier
    • kiteboard@aol.com
      In a message dated 00-12-06 21:17:08 EST, brockus@empire.net writes:
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
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        In a message dated 00-12-06 21:17:08 EST, brockus@... writes:

        << the learning curve for kiteboarding
        is
        > VERY steep (especially compared to windsurfing).
        >
        > Mel

        Meaning you learn a lot in a short period of time, right? I thought it was
        the other way around - steep is hard, etc. >>

        Yes, meaning you learn fast. Picture a graph with time along the bottom (as
        usual), & skill level on the vertical axis. As time increases to the right,
        skill increases rapidly, making for a steep curve (compared to something like
        windsurfing).

        In under a year of kiteboarding I've now jumped as high as I ever did in 20
        years of windsurfing, & can also plane out of nearly every jibe (even in 10
        knots, which I can't do on a sailboard - at least not with the same gear I
        use in 25!). No wonder I quit windsurfing!

        Mel
      • martyn gilson
        Derek, you have had a lot of advice from experienced kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up quickly you still need to remember that there are a few
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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          Derek,
          you have had a lot of advice from experienced
          kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up
          quickly you still need to remember that there are a
          few things that are completely different to
          windsurfing.

          Firstly, getting the board onto your feet, whilst
          holding on to a kite is not easy and different to any
          other watersport.

          Secondly, the power from a kite is not as easily
          controlled as a sail.

          Thirdly, safety factors are much different.

          My advice, especially if you are going to get only one
          kite would be to get a big one. I wish I got a 11M
          wipika to start and 3 line lengths. The shorter the
          lines the less time the kite spends in the wind
          window, therefore easier to control in high winds. If
          you take only a 7 or 9 M inflatable, depending on your
          wind strength, you won't be kiting as often as you
          like. I bought a 7M Naish thinking that it was plenty
          big enough, it's not. The better you become the more
          kite you can hang on to, you'll get to this stage very
          quickly so buying a small kite potentially could be a
          waste. This is not a lightwind sport.

          The AR5 are good (and expensive) kites but with 4
          lines and more challenging relaunch, it would possibly
          be a hindrance rather than a benefit for a beginner to
          get one as their first and only kite.

          The above advice was given to me by this group and it
          is sound advice. However, this is more about getting
          out there and having a go. If you find a dirt cheap
          8.5 wipika classic then grab it, use it for a season,
          sell it and get a big AR5.


          --- derekbown@... wrote: > Hi Everyone,
          > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure
          > that I'm going to
          > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
          >
          > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly
          > good surfer, and
          > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The
          > reasons I want to get
          > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a
          > heck of a lot of
          > fun, and second; because it seems much more portable
          > than either of
          > my other wave sports.
          >
          > So if I was to buy a kite for traveling (mostly
          > disregarding my
          > complete beginner status, which will hopefully be a
          > short phase),
          > what do you think would be the most versatile?
          >
          > I want to travel with only one kite. I'm thinking
          > in the 7 to 9
          > meter range (?).
          >
          > I'm not sure but I don't think I'm interested in
          > 2-line kites. It
          > sounds like the four-line inflatable Naish's have
          > the most wind range
          > and comfort factor, but the new 3-line kites sound
          > very versatile
          > too.
          >
          > Likewise for the board, I think I want a wakeboard
          > (for it's short
          > length), but does anyone suggest anything else?
          >
          > Are there any two-section boards out there, similar
          > to the two-
          > section surfboards that are available for traveling?
          >
          >
          > What is the minimum length that feels comfortable
          > for a 175 lb person
          > in a wide range of wind speeds?
          >
          > I'll probably be sailing in waves, so it would be
          > nice to have a surf-
          > style board but those are all probably too long and
          > fragile.
          >
          > Anyway, I may be getting ahead of myself here but
          > I'm guessing my
          > windsurfing and kiting experience will get me into
          > regular gear (vs
          > learning gear) without too many problems. I paid
          > enough dues in
          > windsurfing to know that I need to start on a long,
          > wide, unpopulated
          > beach, with side-onshore wind (and preferably flat,
          > shallow water
          > with a sandy bottom). But let me know if I'm being
          > overconfident.
          >
          > Thanks for your help, I'm so glad this group is
          > here.
          >
          > -Derek
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
          >
          >
          >


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        • Chris Glazier
          Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable and it is easier to
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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            Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the
            Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable
            and it is easier to relaunch and less expensive than the Naish or
            Wipika. My New Wave 7.3 has about the same power as a Naish 11.0
            (because of projected area).

            And a tip: First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
            doesn't get any easier in the water.

            Chris G



            --- In ksurfschool@egroups.com, derekbown@y... wrote:
            > Hi Everyone,
            > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure that I'm going to
            > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
            >
            > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
            > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to
            get
            > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot
          • kiteboard@aol.com
            In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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              In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@... writes:

              << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
              doesn't get any easier in the water. >>

              I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the water (without
              the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is when you get
              on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read something
              about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90% kite.

              If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a lesson, since
              it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to buy a
              trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).

              Mel
            • Chris Glazier
              Good points Mel Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on land: -fly the kite without looking at it -increase kite power by moving the
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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                Good points Mel

                Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                land:

                -fly the kite without looking at it
                -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
                -launch the kite by yourself
                -land the kite by yourself ..softly
                -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

                Chris G



                > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
                >
                > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
                water (without
                > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
                when you get
                > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
                something
                > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
                kite.
                >
                > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
                lesson, since
                > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
                buy a
                > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
                >
                > Mel
              • kiteboard@aol.com
                In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
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                  In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@... writes:

                  << Good points Mel

                  Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                  land:

                  -fly the kite without looking at it... >>

                  I'd add: ...with one hand, while bobbing in the water (not touching bottom)

                  << -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern... >>

                  ...and in light enough winds to make horizontal passes close to the surface.
                  Simulate waterstarting by hovering high while lying down, then diving the
                  kite to lift you to your feet. Practice in light enough winds that you can
                  dive the kite STRAIGHT down, & pull out before it touches the surface.

                  << -launch the kite by yourself... >>

                  ...from land, AND from leading edge down in the water (a beach where it blows
                  light offshore is ideal).

                  << -land the kite by yourself ..softly >>

                  ..on land AND on the water (leading edge STRAIGHT down in front of the
                  whitewater).

                  << -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                  -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                  -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                  -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite >>

                  Those are all what I recommend also. You can do the drag with bare feet on
                  clean dry sand, and with shoes on grass (especially if it's a little wet).
                  Keep in mind that most of this can be done in VERY light winds (no need to
                  miss any windsurfing). The hovering should be practiced in strong winds also.

                  Mel
                • Farnsworth, Kenny
                  Chris, Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
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                    Chris,

                    Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite
                    is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                    investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                    I am powered up. Just launching can be a scary thing when you are using a
                    big kite in powerful wind. It can be incredibly painful getting dragged
                    along the shore behind an out of control kite.

                    One of the things every new kite surfer needs to understand is that when you
                    want to start jumping and staying upwind, you are going to have to fly
                    really overpowered. I remember when I first went to Maui and watched Elliot
                    Leboe and Lou Wainman get dragged and slammed after doing some big jumps. I
                    was surprised by the abuse that they take day in and day out. Most of the
                    kite videos don't show you how bad the pros get hammered on some jumps. It
                    is not technique alone that allows them to sky so high, they ride incredibly
                    overpowered. That is why good kite control is so essential before you start
                    riding powered up. If you make a wrong move (easy to do in winds over 30
                    knots), the consequences are often very painful.

                    Kenny

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Chris Glazier [mailto:cglazier@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:10 PM
                    To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
                    Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Salutations!


                    Good points Mel

                    Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                    land:

                    -fly the kite without looking at it
                    -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
                    -launch the kite by yourself
                    -land the kite by yourself ..softly
                    -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                    -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                    -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                    -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

                    Chris G



                    > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                    > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
                    >
                    > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
                    water (without
                    > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
                    when you get
                    > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
                    something
                    > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
                    kite.
                    >
                    > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
                    lesson, since
                    > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
                    buy a
                    > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
                    >
                    > Mel
                  • kiteboard@aol.com
                    In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@rhodesbread.com writes:
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
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                      In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                      << Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                      kite
                      is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                      investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                      I am powered up. >>

                      I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                      than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                      feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                      moving to keep it up. Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                      should be done while powered up. To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                      impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead. You should NEVER fly the
                      kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                      of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                      length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind. You
                      should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                      Mel
                    • Derek Bown
                      Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. I m taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 13, 2000
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                        Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. 

                        I'm taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier than a pinwheeling sail in 40 knots, and more likely to happen. 

                        I'll let y'all know how it goes.

                        Cheers,

                        Derek

                          kiteboard@... wrote:

                        In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                        <<  Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                        kite
                        is only lightly powered.  I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                        investment.  I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                        I am powered up. >>

                        I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                        than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                        feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                        moving to keep it up.  Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                        should be done while powered up.  To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                        impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead.  You should NEVER fly the
                        kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                        of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                        length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind.  You
                        should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                        Mel



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