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Salutations!

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  • derekbown@yahoo.com
    Hi Everyone, I ve never tried kitesurfing but I m fairly sure that I m going to buy the gear sometime in the next year. I m an expert windsurfer (and
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
      Hi Everyone,
      I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure that I'm going to
      buy the gear sometime in the next year.

      I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
      enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to get
      into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot of
      fun, and second; because it seems much more portable than either of
      my other wave sports.

      So if I was to buy a kite for traveling (mostly disregarding my
      complete beginner status, which will hopefully be a short phase),
      what do you think would be the most versatile?

      I want to travel with only one kite. I'm thinking in the 7 to 9
      meter range (?).

      I'm not sure but I don't think I'm interested in 2-line kites. It
      sounds like the four-line inflatable Naish's have the most wind range
      and comfort factor, but the new 3-line kites sound very versatile
      too.

      Likewise for the board, I think I want a wakeboard (for it's short
      length), but does anyone suggest anything else?

      Are there any two-section boards out there, similar to the two-
      section surfboards that are available for traveling?

      What is the minimum length that feels comfortable for a 175 lb person
      in a wide range of wind speeds?

      I'll probably be sailing in waves, so it would be nice to have a surf-
      style board but those are all probably too long and fragile.

      Anyway, I may be getting ahead of myself here but I'm guessing my
      windsurfing and kiting experience will get me into regular gear (vs
      learning gear) without too many problems. I paid enough dues in
      windsurfing to know that I need to start on a long, wide, unpopulated
      beach, with side-onshore wind (and preferably flat, shallow water
      with a sandy bottom). But let me know if I'm being overconfident.

      Thanks for your help, I'm so glad this group is here.

      -Derek
    • Dwight & Jacky
      ... In 6 months you ll be an EXwindsurfer. :-)) (speaking from experience) ... The one with the most wind range, which is the AR5. ... 9.5 for 14-24 mph or
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
        > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
        > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to get
        > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot of
        > fun, and second; because it seems much more portable than either of
        > my other wave sports.

        In 6 months you'll be an EXwindsurfer. :-))
        (speaking from experience)

        > So if I was to buy a kite for traveling (mostly disregarding my
        > complete beginner status, which will hopefully be a short phase),
        > what do you think would be the most versatile?

        The one with the most wind range, which is the AR5.

        >
        > I want to travel with only one kite. I'm thinking in the 7 to 9
        > meter range (?).

        9.5 for 14-24 mph or the11.5 12-22 mph

        >
        > I'm not sure but I don't think I'm interested in 2-line kites. It
        > sounds like the four-line inflatable Naish's have the most wind range
        > and comfort factor, but the new 3-line kites sound very versatile
        > too.

        Stay with the AR5, they work, and none work better.

        > Likewise for the board, I think I want a wakeboard (for it's short
        > length), but does anyone suggest anything else?

        Twin tips are taking over the sport in light to moderate wind areas.

        >
        > What is the minimum length that feels comfortable for a 175 lb person
        > in a wide range of wind speeds?

        minimums- 5'9 to 6' for a newbie. 5'0 to 5'6 for an expert at your weight
        (my weight also)

        Dwight
        From the Fisher's Fort
        Kure Beach, NC
        Dwight & Jacky

        http://www.angelfire.com/nc/capefearwindsurfing/ (includes kitesurfing)
      • Hung Vu
        ... Only if one does not want to go fast..... To be fair, an average windsurfer can still go (much ?) faster than an average kitesurfer on a beam reach. We
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
          Dwight & Jacky wrote:
          > > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
          > > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to get
          > > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot of
          > > fun, and second; because it seems much more portable than either of
          > > my other wave sports.
          >
          > In 6 months you'll be an EXwindsurfer. :-))
          > (speaking from experience)

          Only if one does not want to go fast.....

          To be fair, an average windsurfer can still go (much ?) faster than an
          average kitesurfer on a beam reach. We are trying to overcome this
          "last obstacle" at http://www.egroups.com/messages/ksurffaster but so
          far we don't have a working solution yet.

          As far as downwind runs, light wind, jumping, tricks and snow or ice,
          nothing can come close to what we currently have.....

          Hung.
        • kiteboard@aol.com
          In a message dated 00-12-06 17:31:30 EST, derekbown@yahoo.com writes:
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
            In a message dated 00-12-06 17:31:30 EST, derekbown@... writes:

            << I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
            enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to get
            into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot of
            fun, >>

            You have no idea!

            << I want to travel with only one kite. I'm thinking in the 7 to 9
            meter range (?)... the four-line inflatable Naish's have the most wind range
            and comfort factor,... I think I want a wakeboard (for it's short
            length), but does anyone suggest anything else? >>

            I'm under 140 & still have fun with my 7.5AR5 in about 25 knots, & can barely
            hang on in a steady 30 (but that's no fun), & barely plane in about 10. At
            175 pounds, you should get similar range with a 9.5 If I were you though,
            I'd wait until the ARC & Slider have been tested (several recent posts
            already indicate the ARC may be a good choice). Directional boards generally
            have a broader wind range, & are getting shorter all the time.

            << What is the minimum length that feels comfortable for a 175 lb person
            in a wide range of wind speeds? >>

            The infamous Todd of the kitesurf e-group is closer to 200 lb, & rides a 4'10
            (& says anything over 5' feels too big).

            << I'll probably be sailing in waves, so it would be nice to have a surf-
            style board but those are all probably too long and fragile. >>

            Not necessarily, on either count. Consider a short epoxy sandwich
            directional.

            << I'm guessing my
            windsurfing and kiting experience will get me into regular gear (vs
            learning gear) without too many problems. I ...know that I need to start on
            a long, wide, unpopulated
            beach, with side-onshore wind (and preferably flat, shallow water
            with a sandy bottom). But let me know if I'm being overconfident. >>

            If you have access to such an area, & are patient & VERY carefull, you should
            be okay. Even at the worst of times, the learning curve for kiteboarding is
            VERY steep (especially compared to windsurfing).

            Mel
          • Mark Frasier
            ... should ... is ... Meaning you learn a lot in a short period of time, right? I thought it was the other way around - steep is hard, etc. I never did any
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
              > If you have access to such an area, & are patient & VERY carefull, you
              should
              > be okay. Even at the worst of times, the learning curve for kiteboarding
              is
              > VERY steep (especially compared to windsurfing).
              >
              > Mel

              Meaning you learn a lot in a short period of time, right? I thought it was
              the other way around - steep is hard, etc.

              I never did any water sports before kitesurfing (except maybe 2-3 water ski
              runs when I was 12)

              After about a season and a half, I'm keeping up with the local windsurfers
              in winds up to 20 mph or so, and absolutely blowing by them in anything
              under 15. Getting some nice jumps with a few seconds of hangtime and going
              higher in 15 mph than most windsurfers ever will in any conditions. Landed a
              couple of 360's at the end of the summer, and I'm not even actively working
              aerial tricks yet.

              I think my learning speed would have been better if there were other
              kitesurfers around when I started (even just to watch), and if I hadn't let
              my kitebuggying safety sense and budget keep me from using a big enough
              kite. Once I got an 8.5 C Quad things really started to happen. (8.5 CQ is
              roughly equivalent to a 15.5 Naish as far as min. usable windspeed goes - we
              had a lot of light wind here this summer).

              It helped out that I had a lot of traction kite skill from skiing and
              buggying (except that thing about using too small a kite most of the time).

              Mark Frasier
            • kiteboard@aol.com
              In a message dated 00-12-06 21:17:08 EST, brockus@empire.net writes:
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
                In a message dated 00-12-06 21:17:08 EST, brockus@... writes:

                << the learning curve for kiteboarding
                is
                > VERY steep (especially compared to windsurfing).
                >
                > Mel

                Meaning you learn a lot in a short period of time, right? I thought it was
                the other way around - steep is hard, etc. >>

                Yes, meaning you learn fast. Picture a graph with time along the bottom (as
                usual), & skill level on the vertical axis. As time increases to the right,
                skill increases rapidly, making for a steep curve (compared to something like
                windsurfing).

                In under a year of kiteboarding I've now jumped as high as I ever did in 20
                years of windsurfing, & can also plane out of nearly every jibe (even in 10
                knots, which I can't do on a sailboard - at least not with the same gear I
                use in 25!). No wonder I quit windsurfing!

                Mel
              • martyn gilson
                Derek, you have had a lot of advice from experienced kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up quickly you still need to remember that there are a few
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
                  Derek,
                  you have had a lot of advice from experienced
                  kitesurfers. Even though you will pick this up
                  quickly you still need to remember that there are a
                  few things that are completely different to
                  windsurfing.

                  Firstly, getting the board onto your feet, whilst
                  holding on to a kite is not easy and different to any
                  other watersport.

                  Secondly, the power from a kite is not as easily
                  controlled as a sail.

                  Thirdly, safety factors are much different.

                  My advice, especially if you are going to get only one
                  kite would be to get a big one. I wish I got a 11M
                  wipika to start and 3 line lengths. The shorter the
                  lines the less time the kite spends in the wind
                  window, therefore easier to control in high winds. If
                  you take only a 7 or 9 M inflatable, depending on your
                  wind strength, you won't be kiting as often as you
                  like. I bought a 7M Naish thinking that it was plenty
                  big enough, it's not. The better you become the more
                  kite you can hang on to, you'll get to this stage very
                  quickly so buying a small kite potentially could be a
                  waste. This is not a lightwind sport.

                  The AR5 are good (and expensive) kites but with 4
                  lines and more challenging relaunch, it would possibly
                  be a hindrance rather than a benefit for a beginner to
                  get one as their first and only kite.

                  The above advice was given to me by this group and it
                  is sound advice. However, this is more about getting
                  out there and having a go. If you find a dirt cheap
                  8.5 wipika classic then grab it, use it for a season,
                  sell it and get a big AR5.


                  --- derekbown@... wrote: > Hi Everyone,
                  > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure
                  > that I'm going to
                  > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
                  >
                  > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly
                  > good surfer, and
                  > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The
                  > reasons I want to get
                  > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a
                  > heck of a lot of
                  > fun, and second; because it seems much more portable
                  > than either of
                  > my other wave sports.
                  >
                  > So if I was to buy a kite for traveling (mostly
                  > disregarding my
                  > complete beginner status, which will hopefully be a
                  > short phase),
                  > what do you think would be the most versatile?
                  >
                  > I want to travel with only one kite. I'm thinking
                  > in the 7 to 9
                  > meter range (?).
                  >
                  > I'm not sure but I don't think I'm interested in
                  > 2-line kites. It
                  > sounds like the four-line inflatable Naish's have
                  > the most wind range
                  > and comfort factor, but the new 3-line kites sound
                  > very versatile
                  > too.
                  >
                  > Likewise for the board, I think I want a wakeboard
                  > (for it's short
                  > length), but does anyone suggest anything else?
                  >
                  > Are there any two-section boards out there, similar
                  > to the two-
                  > section surfboards that are available for traveling?
                  >
                  >
                  > What is the minimum length that feels comfortable
                  > for a 175 lb person
                  > in a wide range of wind speeds?
                  >
                  > I'll probably be sailing in waves, so it would be
                  > nice to have a surf-
                  > style board but those are all probably too long and
                  > fragile.
                  >
                  > Anyway, I may be getting ahead of myself here but
                  > I'm guessing my
                  > windsurfing and kiting experience will get me into
                  > regular gear (vs
                  > learning gear) without too many problems. I paid
                  > enough dues in
                  > windsurfing to know that I need to start on a long,
                  > wide, unpopulated
                  > beach, with side-onshore wind (and preferably flat,
                  > shallow water
                  > with a sandy bottom). But let me know if I'm being
                  > overconfident.
                  >
                  > Thanks for your help, I'm so glad this group is
                  > here.
                  >
                  > -Derek
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • Chris Glazier
                  Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable and it is easier to
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
                    Another good option for a first kite is the Concept Air New Wave (the
                    Windtools Stamos or Fone Starter may also be similar). It is stable
                    and it is easier to relaunch and less expensive than the Naish or
                    Wipika. My New Wave 7.3 has about the same power as a Naish 11.0
                    (because of projected area).

                    And a tip: First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                    doesn't get any easier in the water.

                    Chris G



                    --- In ksurfschool@egroups.com, derekbown@y... wrote:
                    > Hi Everyone,
                    > I've never tried kitesurfing but I'm fairly sure that I'm going to
                    > buy the gear sometime in the next year.
                    >
                    > I'm an expert windsurfer (and instructor), fairly good surfer, and
                    > enjoy flying my small two-line stunt kite. The reasons I want to
                    get
                    > into kitesurfing are: first; because it looks like a heck of a lot
                  • kiteboard@aol.com
                    In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
                      In a message dated 00-12-07 10:51:16 EST, cglazier@... writes:

                      << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                      doesn't get any easier in the water. >>

                      I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the water (without
                      the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is when you get
                      on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read something
                      about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90% kite.

                      If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a lesson, since
                      it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to buy a
                      trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).

                      Mel
                    • Chris Glazier
                      Good points Mel Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on land: -fly the kite without looking at it -increase kite power by moving the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
                        Good points Mel

                        Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                        land:

                        -fly the kite without looking at it
                        -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
                        -launch the kite by yourself
                        -land the kite by yourself ..softly
                        -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                        -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                        -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                        -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

                        Chris G



                        > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                        > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
                        >
                        > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
                        water (without
                        > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
                        when you get
                        > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
                        something
                        > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
                        kite.
                        >
                        > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
                        lesson, since
                        > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
                        buy a
                        > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
                        >
                        > Mel
                      • kiteboard@aol.com
                        In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@home.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 7, 2000
                          In a message dated 00-12-07 20:12:35 EST, cglazier@... writes:

                          << Good points Mel

                          Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                          land:

                          -fly the kite without looking at it... >>

                          I'd add: ...with one hand, while bobbing in the water (not touching bottom)

                          << -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern... >>

                          ...and in light enough winds to make horizontal passes close to the surface.
                          Simulate waterstarting by hovering high while lying down, then diving the
                          kite to lift you to your feet. Practice in light enough winds that you can
                          dive the kite STRAIGHT down, & pull out before it touches the surface.

                          << -launch the kite by yourself... >>

                          ...from land, AND from leading edge down in the water (a beach where it blows
                          light offshore is ideal).

                          << -land the kite by yourself ..softly >>

                          ..on land AND on the water (leading edge STRAIGHT down in front of the
                          whitewater).

                          << -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                          -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                          -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                          -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite >>

                          Those are all what I recommend also. You can do the drag with bare feet on
                          clean dry sand, and with shoes on grass (especially if it's a little wet).
                          Keep in mind that most of this can be done in VERY light winds (no need to
                          miss any windsurfing). The hovering should be practiced in strong winds also.

                          Mel
                        • Farnsworth, Kenny
                          Chris, Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
                            Chris,

                            Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your kite
                            is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                            investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                            I am powered up. Just launching can be a scary thing when you are using a
                            big kite in powerful wind. It can be incredibly painful getting dragged
                            along the shore behind an out of control kite.

                            One of the things every new kite surfer needs to understand is that when you
                            want to start jumping and staying upwind, you are going to have to fly
                            really overpowered. I remember when I first went to Maui and watched Elliot
                            Leboe and Lou Wainman get dragged and slammed after doing some big jumps. I
                            was surprised by the abuse that they take day in and day out. Most of the
                            kite videos don't show you how bad the pros get hammered on some jumps. It
                            is not technique alone that allows them to sky so high, they ride incredibly
                            overpowered. That is why good kite control is so essential before you start
                            riding powered up. If you make a wrong move (easy to do in winds over 30
                            knots), the consequences are often very painful.

                            Kenny

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Chris Glazier [mailto:cglazier@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:10 PM
                            To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
                            Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Salutations!


                            Good points Mel

                            Here is a few things that a beginner kite flyer should practise on
                            land:

                            -fly the kite without looking at it
                            -increase kite power by moving the kite in a figure 8 pattern
                            -launch the kite by yourself
                            -land the kite by yourself ..softly
                            -fly the kite with one hand (while it is hooked in the harness)
                            -while one hand flying, pick up something with your other hand
                            -if on sand, use kite movement to drag yourself along on your heels
                            -do the heel drag (under control) without looking at the kite

                            Chris G



                            > << First, spend a few hours flying your kite on land. It
                            > doesn't get any easier in the water. >>
                            >
                            > I'd say a few DAYS, or even weeks, including kiteflying in the
                            water (without
                            > the board). The better you are with the kite, the easier it is
                            when you get
                            > on the board (and safer, for yourself and others). I recently read
                            something
                            > about 80% kite skill, 20% board, but I'd say it's likely over 90%
                            kite.
                            >
                            > If you want to just get your final kite right away, consider a
                            lesson, since
                            > it will get you way up the learning curve right away (no need to
                            buy a
                            > trainer kite, or 2-line kiteboard kite to learn on).
                            >
                            > Mel
                          • kiteboard@aol.com
                            In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@rhodesbread.com writes:
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 8, 2000
                              In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                              << Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                              kite
                              is only lightly powered. I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                              investment. I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                              I am powered up. >>

                              I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                              than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                              feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                              moving to keep it up. Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                              should be done while powered up. To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                              impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead. You should NEVER fly the
                              kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                              of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                              length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind. You
                              should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                              Mel
                            • Derek Bown
                              Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. I m taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 13, 2000

                                Thank you, everyone, for all your great replies. 

                                I'm taking the safety tips to heart. It sounds like losing control with a kite on the beach is far deadlier than a pinwheeling sail in 40 knots, and more likely to happen. 

                                I'll let y'all know how it goes.

                                Cheers,

                                Derek

                                  kiteboard@... wrote:

                                In a message dated 00-12-08 11:28:44 EST, kenny@... writes:

                                <<  Those are good skills to practice, but you want to make sure that your
                                kite
                                is only lightly powered.  I personally think a trainer kite is a worthwhile
                                investment.  I wouldn't dare do any of those things you mention on land when
                                I am powered up. >>

                                I forgot to mention that I tell every beginner getting a kite that's larger
                                than they're used to that they must first fly it in winds they can barely
                                feel, so they even need a helper to toss it up to launch, & need to keep it
                                moving to keep it up.  Of those practice skills, only the hovering ones
                                should be done while powered up.  To me, "powered up" means it's nearly
                                impossible to walk upwind with the kite overhead.  You should NEVER fly the
                                kite overhead while powered up without at least two full line lengths clear
                                of obstacles & people to either side of downwind, AND at least one full kite
                                length of soft surface (dry sand or water) to either side downwind.  You
                                should also never fly without a good depowering leash system.

                                Mel



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